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Post by shelverton on Oct 11, 2019 4:36:54 GMT -5
If I like a thing I’m just happy when there’s more of it. I’ll let the developers be protective of their work instead, it doesn’t concern me really. Unless someone is stealing someone elses work, pretending they’ve made it. But that’s another thing entirely.
I do however think the Cuphead developers could take this thing to court if they wanted to, we’ll see what happens.
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Post by retr0gamer on Oct 11, 2019 5:26:01 GMT -5
It would never win in court though. the Capcom fighters history law suit pretty much put an end to that. There's no laws against making a derivative work of art and this distinguishes itself enough from Cuphead to be it's own thing.
Now the countless games that big mobile corporations have flat out stolen, like 2048, candy crush saga and numerous copies of puzzle bobble and puzzleloop should be rightfully shafted in court.
I mean if you want to screw over this game you'd have to be talking about screwing over Blazing chrome as well for being a flat out contra 3 clone. The only thig separating both is the length of time since their inspirations. There's also the countless brown and grey cover shooters of last gen which looked like they pretty much had the same art style.
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Post by dsparil on Oct 11, 2019 6:40:12 GMT -5
There's nothing they'd even be able to sue over—it's not on the level of a "Guchi" bag or something—but that does kinda look like a cheap clone. What's up with the weird cyborg cow? Ultimately, there's blatant clones of everything so why does this get so much attention? The tiny studio got more free publicity than they could ever hope for.
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Post by windfisch on Oct 11, 2019 7:59:42 GMT -5
Of course Cuphead has its own inspirations, but it's one thing to take inspiration from a variety of things and mix them together (which is what Cuphead did) and another thing to just copy an entire game. What these guys did was take all their inspiration from literally one game. It's a run and gunner focused on boss battles, with shmup stages, 20's/30's cartoon style and a jazz soundtrack. They even pretty much took the animations of them main characters from Cuphead. They didn't merely took inspiration from it, they tried to make it as similar as possible in every way. If Cuphead was a series that had been dead for 20 years it would've been one thing, but this is just shameless. It would be like making a stealth game with a flat artsyle called 'Rude Duck Game' in which you play as a duck trying to make life miserable for villagers while a piano rendition of a piece of classical music plays. To be fair, Cuphead's artists also more or less copied many animation cycles and character designs from old cartoons. Also Enchanted Portals does draw inspiration from other sources, too. From the general fairy tale motif, to some of the designs (like the cyborg cow or the crab) leaning towards a 90s/00s Cartoon Network/Nickelodeon style, which is also one reason why it looks less cohesive, btw. Therefore claiming they copied the entire game seems unwarranted to me, especially since it's still early in development. For example the titular portals might be part of the actual gameplay (rather than just getting the characters from one set piece to another). And even what is there took some genuinely hard work and lots of creativity to make (see the video below). For what it's worth it also should be noted that the developers (just two persons, only one doing all the animation by herself) openly state: "We're both avid fans of Cuphead and wanted to make a similar game, but always from a place of love, respect and admiration for the original." So at least they give credit, where credit is due.
I also can't agree on the dormant franchise argument, because from a creative standpoint it makes no difference how old the original is, it takes the same effort and the same mindset to successfully emulate a certain style. People sometimes want more of the same, whether the original is 20 or 2 years old. It seems a bit arbitrary to say after X years it's okay, before that it isn't. And I doubt Cuphead, or a potential sequel, will sell less with this game being around. If anything it probably will have the opposite effect and remind people of how cool it is.
Also regarding your analogy, it probably would have to be called "Rude Chicken Game" and would be set on a space station or something. I mean if you want to screw over this game you'd have to be talking about screwing over Blazing chrome as well for being a flat out contra 3 clone. The only thig separating both is the length of time since their inspirations. There's also the countless brown and grey cover shooters of last gen which looked like they pretty much had the same art style. I was thinking the same thing, hardly anybody complained about that game. And a Contra Collection and some new Contra games (Return and Rogue Corps) have been released relatively recently, so it's not even like it is a dead IP per se. There's nothing they'd even be able to sue over—it's not on the level of a "Guchi" bag or something—but that does kinda look like a cheap clone. What's up with the weird cyborg cow? Ultimately, there's blatant clones of everything so why does this get so much attention? The tiny studio got more free publicity than they could ever hope for. One can call it a clone, but hardly a cheap one. This video sums it up pretty well, imo:
It also remains to be seen, whether all that publicity will actually benefit them or not, since there is so much negativity towards it.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Oct 11, 2019 9:05:24 GMT -5
I'm not saying that they copied literally everything about Cuphead. Obviously they didn't. Of course the bosses are different and there's some other subtle things.
It's not like I think they should be sued, or that this is going to cut into Cuphead's sales. I'm not even saying they're being lazy. But it IS a ripoff. Small differences don't change that. Why not come up with a unique artstyle? Why not figure out a different angle than a focus on boss rush? They even went as far as to mimic the musical style (unsuccessfully) and more or less seemed to have traced the character animations. If you're going as far as mimicing even the less obvious parts of a game, you're making a ripoff. And the fact of the matter is, you can make a game inspired by another game without ripping it off completely.
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Post by windfisch on Oct 11, 2019 11:07:38 GMT -5
I probably have a different definition of the term "ripoff". To me that implies dishonesty and not putting in any actual effort. It's true that some animations were clearly done using Cuphead as a reference. The main characters have some similar looking moves and poses and there are other things that look familiar. They don't look directly traced, though. And the majority of the animation work seems completely fresh.
Why does Cuphead have to stay the only game combining boss-rush run'n gun gameplay and 30s style cartoon animation? Neither of those things has been done to death so far on their own (Alien Soldier and Mickey Mania respectively come to mind, but few others). Meanwhile we're drowning in generic shiny Unreal Engine games. Pixel art is also pretty common nowadays. So a Cuphead-like is actually rather refreshing to me. Who would've even thought we'd see another game like it (at least not with the amount of ambition that's at display here)? The making of Cuphead was borderline insane and anybody trying to replicate that, albeit with different tools, deserves my respect.
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Post by toei on Oct 11, 2019 13:22:39 GMT -5
As a player, I've never had a problem with games similar to games I like - if anything, I'm drawn to them. From the developer's point of view, though, it kind of sucks if you want to make sequels or other games in the same style, which is a legitimate thing to do once you've created one for yourself, and a bunch of weaker clones appear in the meantime, diluting and cheapening your style because their makers lack creativity. That's why the Blazing Chrome comparison is valid. A distance of 20 years can turn a blatant rip-off into an homage.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Oct 11, 2019 15:23:41 GMT -5
The art appear to dip further into later decade cartoons, the cow bosses remind me of 80s and 90s animation. It actually looking like there is no clear source here, it certain not exclusively golden age work here like Cuphead.
I"m looking at the character control. It IS Cuphead in that regard. Same "finger shot", rolling jump and dashing. If they were inspired it certainly was the area they put no effort into hiding.
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Post by shelverton on Oct 11, 2019 16:03:58 GMT -5
All this made me think about The Krion Conquest and how it wasn’t shut down by Capcom back in the day. Capcom seemed much more protective of its Street Fighter brand, even though The Krion Conquest took more from Mega Man than, say, Fighters History took from Street Fighter. It could easily be mistaken for a hacked ROM.
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Post by windfisch on Oct 11, 2019 16:48:46 GMT -5
Mega Man, Sonic, Mario, Street Fighter, Doom, Diablo... all those series have survived just fine despite their countless imitators. I think Cuphead will too.
Btw. there was another relatively recent indie game vaguely reminscent of Cuphead, at least in terms of aesthetics. I think it was a bit darker thematically and obviously not as well animated. But I can't remember what it was called, or where I've heard about it. I've either read an article (maybe even on HG101) or seen a video (possibly on Get Indie Gaming?). Would anybody have any suggestions as to what title that could be?
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Post by lurker on Oct 11, 2019 20:54:14 GMT -5
Trying to decide between the two Color Dungeon rewards in Link's Awakening.
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Post by Digitalnametag on Oct 11, 2019 22:39:32 GMT -5
Trying to decide between the two Color Dungeon rewards in Link's Awakening. Defense is for suckers! Cloak yourself in the blood of your enemies with the Red Tunic.
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Post by lurker on Oct 12, 2019 0:19:18 GMT -5
ARgh! Is there any way I can get rid of the chicken so I can do the color dungeon or do I have to defeat the Eagle dungeon first?
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Post by Digitalnametag on Oct 12, 2019 1:28:25 GMT -5
That I don’t know. I’ve always beat the color dungeon as soon as I could. Does it actually follow you inside or somehow prevent you from reaching the dungeon?
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Post by Woody Alien on Oct 12, 2019 5:17:02 GMT -5
There's nothing they'd even be able to sue over—it's not on the level of a "Guchi" bag or something—but that does kinda look like a cheap clone. What's up with the weird cyborg cow? Ultimately, there's blatant clones of everything so why does this get so much attention? The tiny studio got more free publicity than they could ever hope for. I don't get it either, it doesn't seem such a huge offense in itself. Too much negativity for some reason.
The cyborg cow reminds me of the "Cthulhu Saves the World" comedy RPG, where at one point you get on a UFO and have to fight genetically engineered cow soldiers, the "Bovinators", even the background graphics when you fight the boss in the background are similar. But that doesn't mean it is a rip-off either. Meanwhile there's this other game being developed that looks quite like a slightly creepier Cuphead and yet nobody gave a shit about it. (A shame, because I can say that the dev's earlier game Catmaze was actually good)
Mega Man, Sonic, Mario, Street Fighter, Doom, Diablo... all those series have survived just fine despite their countless imitators. I think Cuphead will too. Btw. there was another relatively recent indie game vaguely reminscent of Cuphead, at least in terms of aesthetics. I think it was a bit darker thematically and obviously not as well animated. But I can't remember what it was called, or where I've heard about it. I've either read an article (maybe even on HG101) or seen a video (possibly on Get Indie Gaming?). Would anybody have any suggestions as to what title that could be? Is it perhaps this one that I have posted above?
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