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Post by Allie on Jun 7, 2013 14:03:59 GMT -5
The thing is, trying to press for a Scorched Earth answer like that, even though it doesn't seem likely, just because it'd piss off people that you see as intolerable, in the end doesn't really help. Codifying a dishonest answer just to lock the loop isn't going to benefit someone in the individual long term.
Regardless, there's always going to be someone willing to take a grant to produce a study that gives the results that someone or other wants to hear (for example, that it's 100% genetic, set in stone, not malleable in the least, with environment, conditioning, and brain chemistry having zero effect). But then there's just going to be another study down the line that contradicts the first one, and so on.
Personally, I don't understand why anybody would WANT to be shoved into a "quick and easy" identity allegiance box in the first place (leaving politics out of it).
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Post by 9inchsamurai on Jun 22, 2013 3:58:12 GMT -5
Sexuality is most definitely fluid, and can definitely be influenced by the things you experience as you live your life. I've never told anyone this, but about a year ago I met this guy through some fighting game gatherings. There was one weekend where we carpooled together to a tournament, and during the ride to/from I kept having slightly sexual thoughts about this person. I don't think I had ever experienced that about another man before in my life, so it was pretty surprising. The really interesting thing though is that later he mentioned that he's had transgender feelings about transitioning to a woman. So then I started thinking about what the hell that meant for my own sexuality. Of course I can't really say anything definitive about this because I'm uh, not exactly experienced, sexually.
But sometimes I wonder if I would've had that same experience if I wasn't friends with a couple transgendered women, or if one of my best friends had never talked to me about his struggle over whether he was gay or not. And hell I'm pretty sure some of the porn I've looked at has influenced this to some degree too. I also realized that all throughout growing up I never really strongly identified as "male," though I certainly know that I'm not transgendered, it's more like I just never particularly cared about "acting like a man." I've essentially concluded that I can visualize myself being in a relationship with someone that identifies and presents as female, and beyond that I honestly don't think I care what their biological parts are.
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Post by Jave on Jun 22, 2013 9:58:37 GMT -5
Personally, I don't understand why anybody would WANT to be shoved into a "quick and easy" identity allegiance box in the first place (leaving politics out of it). The boxes are at least somewhat codified, whereas sexuality on an individual level can be a pretty tangled and contradictory mess to deal with. Part of the reason I've been so reluctant to out myself as asexual is because of certain self-contradictions that I don't know how to reconcile. The fact that I still watch and enjoy porn, for instance, would seem to go against the idea of not feeling any sort of sexual attraction, and I don't have an answer for that. What I do know is that I've got an ex-girlfriend whom I did have sex with at the time, and since then, I've been physically intimate with both men and women, and I'll still look twice any time a good looking person walks by, but I haven't been sexually active or in pursuit of a physical relationship with either a man or a woman for almost a decade, and I don't feel the slightest bit upset about that or see any reason to change it.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Jun 22, 2013 10:06:33 GMT -5
I've spent close to 30 years having lots of questions and curiosities but in the end I was factually hetero. Then ten years ago I was in a very, very bad accident. Very, very bad consequences. I've been getting a disabled pension. I am so deep in depression all the time, so lonely, trhat I've written off attraction, both because I have bigger problems, and also as a choice.
I dunno. I'm at home every day, ousted from real life. It would be useless to build a relationship in my place. And... I will not hide it, my health problems simply destroyed a couple I had been in for 11 years. Because my girlfriend, in the end, was certainly not willing to accept what is left of me. So she disappeared and went on to live a great life.
And I still love that woman, and I STILL dream about her every night, and... I'm just too tired now. I've been crying everyday for ten years. That woman left such a strong impression on me that I have developed a reaction against women as my mates. I cannot forgive. I despise what one of them did SO MUCH, I hate it SO MUCH, that I despise women who may even possibly maybe look at me with sympathy. Too dangerous for a guy like me.
But it sadly did not make me open to my gay part. Another door did not open just because one had been closed. It may have been awesome, but... All I am is I'm sick all day long. I have no place for desire or feeling anymore! So here I am: I'm asexual. Not like someone positive who was in touch with his/her nature: I am asexual exactly like freaking DARTH VADER is asexual. I'm more a machine and pills than a man, and I'm in constant moral pain and suffering. It's the being too weak, too sensitive. And seeing what my life has become, the one I may end up as is The Emperor. NOBODY ever wondered wether Star Wars' Emperor is ANYTHING else than asexual. Yep, I am slowly becoming Palpatine, openly laughing at couples. My God, this is a scenario I would not wish upon anybody. I mean, I am still "young". Spending a life without sharing anything with someone you love, is simply more than I can take.
So, to everybody younger than me, so all of you, I say this: be curious, be bi-curious, but TRY anything you can before it's too late. Nobody is safe from an accident. My God, I love women so much. Not taking someone in your arms for years is something that is too hard, too grim, even for me. I had so much pleasure, of course, but also tenderness, admiration, pride, and shared laughs with the women who gave me a chance, what happened?
I'm gonna go listen to some Nine Inch Nails and think about loss.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jun 23, 2013 9:25:26 GMT -5
Are you saying you don't care if someone's gay or not? Hard to see how that could be offensive. Really, the inverse would be more worthy of spite. I just had this discussion with someone the other day, and his position was basically the "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" cliché. That in his opinion, it's "not enough" to not care what someone's sexuality is. He feels like if you're not actively advocating, then you're implicitly enabling the other side. I can't fall in line with that. Who cares what militants think anyway. I like to think I don't judge people for their sexuality. It wasn't always the case - I guess because of religion and being an immature person I was pretty bigoted for a long time, but making gay and transgendered friends in college helped me get my head out of my ass (well in that regard anyway).
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Post by Jave on Jun 23, 2013 15:23:50 GMT -5
@kurtz:
Wow, man, that's really heavy. I want to say something uplifting and supportive, but I don't know if words exist that are sufficient.
It had to take incredible strength of character to share that with us, it couldn't have been easy.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Jun 24, 2013 10:06:33 GMT -5
@kurtz: Wow, man, that's really heavy. I want to say something uplifting and supportive, but I don't know if words exist that are sufficient. It had to take incredible strength of character to share that with us, it couldn't have been easy. Thanks. I know I was in Reaaally Much, Too Much Information, Dude, territory. I let the post here because, why not? It's my real life after all, what I have to say has a point, something I wanted to say to the kids here about Life and sexuality's frailties. so I said let's go and posted it. And I definitely appreciate everybody's discretion on this. And again, thank you jave.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Jul 1, 2013 10:23:00 GMT -5
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Post by The Great Klaid on Jul 1, 2013 13:04:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry I haven't finished reading the whole thread, but I wanted to share, well that this has been an oddly prevalent topic in my life. My fiancee was, I've got two girls in my D&D game who are quite the activists for it here in South Dakota. Me and my buddy are accused of it quite often. Jokingly from our friends and family. Not so much from other people... We're just incredibly comfortable around each other. We even play along with it, we once went an entire day coming up with pirate themed innuendo while doing some errands. Both of our fiancee's asked if either of us have done anything. We told them that we have often slept with each other, gone skinny dipping, and even showered together. But no we're not gay.
And I guess that's the thing. I guess it's just a funny topic in my life. Like haha funny. I've never really seen any hate in my life. It's... strange and I make fun of things that are strange. But, I guess that's how most of those I've met treat it too.
If I may for a second, I live in rural South Dakota. If I have met so many people comfortable with this, then that's a sign things are changing ^_^
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jul 12, 2013 18:59:32 GMT -5
Andrew Garfield made some comment about how he would like to see Mary Jane be a guy in the movies. Am I allowed to make a joke about Spider-Man swinging both ways?
Seriously though, what's your opinion on gay reboots of characters? I'm against, but mostly because I love the status quo in comics and shit (hence my apprehension at a lot of the New 52, like the "no underpants" costumes).
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Post by Allie on Jul 12, 2013 19:49:31 GMT -5
Andrew Garfield made some comment about how he would like to see Mary Jane be a guy in the movies. Am I allowed to make a joke about Spider-Man swinging both ways? Seriously though, what's your opinion on gay reboots of characters? I'm against, but mostly because I love the status quo in comics and shit (hence my apprehension at a lot of the New 52, like the "no underpants" costumes). That exact topic got shut down on another board I'm on. I'm against it, personally. I think I'd be OK with the inheritor of a Legacy Character being written to be so, but the idea of taking an established character and changing their sexuality out of some misguided sense of "social sensitivity" honestly rubs me the wrong way. It carries too much of a "Ha! How ya like THEM apples?" vibe to it.
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Post by Bobinator on Jul 13, 2013 0:15:45 GMT -5
Eh. I dunno, I seriously doubt that Marvel or DC would ever, ever make any of their A-listers anything but straight. I mean, everybody's heard of Batman, Wolverine, Superman, and Green Lantern. When DC or Marvel makes any gay characters, they tend to make it so it's basically somebody that nobody gives a crap about. I mean, there's Freedom Ring, Northstar, The Question... I mean, name anybody who knows who Freedom Ring is.
Oh, sure, there's Alan Scott, one of the Green Lanterns, but he's stuck in some parallel universe that's probably never going to show up in DC's merchandise.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 1:04:17 GMT -5
Alan Scott had a daughter, didn't he? Or so I thought.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jul 13, 2013 1:31:26 GMT -5
Eh. I dunno, I seriously doubt that Marvel or DC would ever, ever make any of their A-listers anything but straight. I mean, everybody's heard of Batman, Wolverine, Superman, and Green Lantern. When DC or Marvel makes any gay characters, they tend to make it so it's basically somebody that nobody gives a crap about. I mean, there's Freedom Ring, Northstar, The Question... I mean, name anybody who knows who Freedom Ring is.Oh, sure, there's Alan Scott, one of the Green Lanterns, but he's stuck in some parallel universe that's probably never going to show up in DC's merchandise. What's sad about Freedom Ring is that his creator, Robert Kirkman (of Walking Dead and Invincible fame) intended for him to be a complete fuck up, and because of lack of interest they ended up accelerating the schedule and killing him off in a really unpleasant and depressing way early. This after Marvel did press releases bragging about how they had a "major gay superhero". New 52 Alan Scott has been handled surprisingly un-DC-like, which is to say that he isn't talking with a lisp (like Estana of the New Guardians), he doesn't have AIDS (see any gay or non-gay character in any Judd Winnick comic ever), and he's not a leather bear. Unfortunately, they pulled the "Women in Refrigerators" card again, but this time it was his boyfriend. As for gays in Marvel, you of course have Northstar, who was dying of "magic AIDS" at one point and had to go back to the fairy dimension that he was from (not kidding). You also have Shatterstar and Richter in X Force, which was relatively tolerant (thanks to Peter David), and had the added bonus of getting Rob Liefeld to lose his shit and look like a homophobe. I'd love to see some more mainstream heroes that are gay, I'm just not sure it's going to happen or happen in a way that will seem organic rather than some publicity stunt. Jason: Alan Scott had a daughter (Jade) and son (Obsidian, who was gay, and also suffered from "token gay character in a comic syndrome", sadly).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 1:55:55 GMT -5
Don't forget Kathy Kane. She's a lesbian because...she's a lesbian!
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