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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 20, 2013 14:35:29 GMT -5
I believe everyone has already heard the praise for M2's conversions, which truly have a level of love and care put behind every game that has to be seen.
From the technically unbelievable super-scaler 3D conversions (Galaxy Force II really does look incredibly better than the original) to the infinitely customizable Mega Drive games (Super Shinobi 2 is a pretty meaty game, compared to Space Harrier), there are a lot of little details I'd like to see your opinion about. After all, this collection has to have been made specifically for this site...
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 20, 2013 16:36:13 GMT -5
Best? Galaxy Force II 3D for 3DS. I love games like Starfox and Panzer Dragoon, and this game is every bit as complex and addictive, if not moreso. The 3D works really, really well for this game, and the special display options to simulate the arcade experience are lots of fun too. I'm usually not one for going for high scores or challenges but it's been really fun challenging it over and over again to see how far I can get on the limited energy you get. I hope that M2 is able to adapt more of Sega's arcade games, and that they're released here in the US. Oh yeah. GF II is more beautiful than anyone could have hoped for. All these games are unbelievable. Now, let's wait for After Burner 2 (it was just released in Japan). That game's sense of speed in 3D, gaaaah... (plus it is a hectic game that becomes hugely satisfying once you realize the game is actually, well, playable. You'll love chasing hi-scores in AB2). I wonder if the 3DS hardware could run OutRunners in 3D. Probably not, but that would be a dream come true. M2 did the same with the credits for Space Harrier and Super Hang-On: unusual points of view created just because, or a wild free ride like Space Harrier! There is litteraly not a fan-service they did not include. The level of detail is staggering. Guise give these a chance, they trump almost all of Nintendo's 3D Classics (which are still cool, right?) |
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 20, 2013 17:24:48 GMT -5
I believe everyone has already heard the praise for M2's conversions, which truly have a level of love and care put behind every game that has to be seen. From the technically unbelievable super-scaler 3D conversions (Galaxy Force II really does look incredibly better than the original) to the infinitely customizable Mega Drive games (Super Shinobi 2 is a pretty meaty game, compared to Space Harrier), there are a lot of little details I'd like to see your opinion about. After all, this collection has to have been made specifically for this site... I'm glad you brought this topic up Kurtz. I'm enjoying them so far. If I had a complaint to make, it's that a couple of the Genesis/Megadrive games (specifically, Streets of Rage, and maybe Ecco) are questionable - have they said why they went with the original SOR instead of 2? Neither really would benefit from 3D like Sonic or Shinobi III do (which are both really good looking, btw), and SOR2 is leagues better than the first. Oh well. |
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Post by Malev on Dec 20, 2013 17:51:58 GMT -5
I believe everyone has already heard the praise for M2's conversions, which truly have a level of love and care put behind every game that has to be seen. From the technically unbelievable super-scaler 3D conversions (Galaxy Force II really does look incredibly better than the original) to the infinitely customizable Mega Drive games (Super Shinobi 2 is a pretty meaty game, compared to Space Harrier), there are a lot of little details I'd like to see your opinion about. After all, this collection has to have been made specifically for this site... I'm glad you brought this topic up Kurtz. I'm enjoying them so far. If I had a complaint to make, it's that a couple of the Genesis/Megadrive games (specifically, Streets of Rage, and maybe Ecco) are questionable - have they said why they went with the original SOR instead of 2? Neither really would benefit from 3D like Sonic or Shinobi III do (which are both really good looking, btw), and SOR2 is leagues better than the first. Oh well. I believe it's more of a test run for the porters. If it stays popular on the eShop they'll get to work on the sequels on a hopefully nice clip. Nice that they're cheaper than the Wii VC releases in the US with lots of tinkering and added options. I look forward to picking up 3 more of these (Shinobi III, GFII, and Space Harrier) with Xmas cash. |
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 20, 2013 18:07:17 GMT -5
I'm glad you brought this topic up Kurtz. I'm enjoying them so far. If I had a complaint to make, it's that a couple of the Genesis/Megadrive games (specifically, Streets of Rage, and maybe Ecco) are questionable - have they said why they went with the original SOR instead of 2? Neither really would benefit from 3D like Sonic or Shinobi III do (which are both really good looking, btw), and SOR2 is leagues better than the first. Oh well. I believe it's more of a test run for the porters. If it stays popular on the eShop they'll get to work on the sequels on a hopefully nice clip. Nice that they're cheaper than the Wii VC releases in the US with lots of tinkering and added options. I look forward to picking up 3 more of these (Shinobi III, GFII, and Space Harrier) with Xmas cash. Those are all good choices. I was just perplexed about Streets of Rage because from the looks of things in those interviews on Siliconera, they talked about how they picked games that either would look good (Shinobi III, Sonic with their parallax) or where it would look good and help or enhance the gameplay (GFII, and Space Harrier too). The 3D is really amazing in GFII, btw, and it feels more immersive than the 3DS port of Starfox 64 (which is still really good). |
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Post by Allie on Dec 20, 2013 18:24:11 GMT -5
M2 really does seem like the standard-bearer when it comes to making new ports of old console (or even arcade) games.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 20, 2013 19:38:56 GMT -5
Joseph Joestar: With SOR, it's baffling that they did not choose 2. But the 3D does actually enhance the gameplay: finally, for the first time in a beat'em up, you don't have to worry that you are misaligned with your enemy. The depth of field finally rids us of punches that land in the air... that's a notable gameplay enhancement. Aesthetically, though, prout.
About strange choices for this first series, I can imagine M2 choosing Ecco for name recognition, and fast parallax. Choosing the Mega Drive version of Altered Beast is a no-brainer, since we all know that, at least in the USA, it is a nostalgia machine (even though, of course, it's a game that gains nothing from 3D) that... well it's still fun from time to time.
Now Streets of Rage 1 instead of 2... I'm as baffled as everyone. It is beyond doubt that it's the sequel that makes the franchise. SOR 1 really looks like a boosted SMS game compared to 2; it even features almost no parallax, AND semi isometric levels (like the first level) which are not really possible to seamlessly translate into stereoscopic 3D. The gameplay is clearly not as smooth as the sequels, something M2 can't fix.
I'm pretty sure not so many younger gamers have even played it, though, which is a plus. It's a complete, cheap package without direct competition in it's genre. First-time SOR buyers are certainly not getting stiffed here, SOR is a good game, even if it's not it's sequel. Well I did replay it on Genesis and 3DS, and as rough as it is, it is a very fast and nervous game, with faster enemies than SOR 2, actually. The programmers could not render many enemy sprites on screen at once, not unlike Final Fight on the SNES, but where FF's enemies tended to veer off-screen when you chased them, and stay off-screen forever, which made the game boring, here in SOR they run at you with all they got, and that makes the game pretty fun, and fast, even if, no, I don't understand why not SOR 2. But I'd still recommend the game. It's a solid 6.5/7, whereas SOR 2 would probably be a 8.5 or a 9 I guess, to give you a comparison point. Core gameplay is good, ambiance is great, and the soundtrack! Of course Yuzo Koshiro's soundtrack, which is at least as good as 2 - and trumps 3 - could be the argument that tips you over... The first level BGM is soo good, it should have become the theme of every first round in the series.
So yep, Altered Beast and Streets of Rage are the two discutable choices in this first batch, because they don't really benefit from 3D. Or do they? Altered Beast is not improved by 3D since it plays on a flat plane.
But, At the very least, it IS useful in SOR: to judge wether your punches are aligned with your enemy; in that sense, SOR's 3D effect does in fact enhance the gameplay, by getting rid of a problem which has plagued every beat'em up ever: are my punches gonna land, or am I just too high or too low to touch anything? Well the 3D effect does really, finally offer a new solution to a 25-year old problem. Not so bad, then, I guess? That useful use of 3D offers a unique experience for a beat'em up. That plus the rest more than justify the 6 bucks; after that, honestly SOR is the better game, compared to Altered Beast (which, admittedly, is clever nostalgiaxploitation).
Sonic does look fantastic, includes the japanese version (look at the clouds inthe second stage. I've missed them for 23 years), the ability to spin dash and 3D that suits the game.
Super Shinobi 2 is the prettiest Mega Drive conversion; the 3D here is the best of the Mega Drive conversions, and the game remains a polished eyperience. No Yuzo Koshiro music in that one, but I can clearly understand why they did not choose Revenge.
I don't think I'll ever buy Ecco in any form; but if unlike me, there is not a game in these 3D remakes that you actively detest, then by Jeebus get them all; they're the best ports I think I've ever seen, between the 3D conversion and the illimited settings options, these beat even M2's work I've played before. It's lightning in a bottle.
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Post by ghanmi on Dec 21, 2013 8:05:33 GMT -5
Wish Saturn games would get some of all this love  |
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 21, 2013 10:44:05 GMT -5
Wish Saturn games would get some of all this love Highly doubtful. Most 2D greats were made by third parties (Capcom, SNK, Taito etc.); and the polygonal 3D games are completely useless to convert. SEGA won't hi-scale the Saturn "Daytona USA"; they will simply upscale the arcade game. A real "remake" job, like what SEGA did with Nights, costs a lot of money; and the Saturn simply has not got very many classics that would be economically viable. If you're thinking RPGs... usually every JRPG gets remade/spin-off'ed after 15 years. Which is what happened with the Saturn, mostly. By the way, the XBLA conversion of "Nights into dreams" is impeccable, and even though it is a bit pricey, it is the perfect exemple of how an HD remake should be done. Wow... it's already been said, but SEGA are on fire with their conversions of their catalogue. I don't care why, I'm just happy to play "Nights" with an analog stick. (I now understand this game was not made for digital. Better 20 years too late than nothing). |
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Post by Ryusui on Dec 21, 2013 12:53:31 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's incredible that they basically ported Haya Oh from the SMS/X68K versions of Space Harrier into the original arcade game. Gives me hope that, if they ever get around to a 3D Classics Sonic 2, we'll get the Hidden Palace Zone like with the iOS/Android version. :3
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 21, 2013 13:09:55 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's incredible that they basically ported Haya Oh from the SMS/X68K versions of Space Harrier into the original arcade game. Gives me hope that, if they ever get around to a 3D Classics Sonic 2, we'll get the Hidden Palace Zone like with the iOS/Android version. :3 Yeah! Haya Oh + smoothed arcade version + wide screen + stereoscopic 3D... plus a visually unique experience, which is in itself a surrealist masterpiece: headsplosion. The enemies, the colors... This game has no real graphical equal, and looks even stranger now than 28 years ago. It has just begun to sink in how incredible these conversions are. I bought them for nostalgia and 3D. I did not expect they would give us what amounts to a new experience, almost a new game. These conversions absolutely are in the very best action games available on 3DS, and are the crown jewels of the e-shop. They're really cheap for what they are. If SEGA don't end up selling them on a cart for all those who don't buy digital, it will be a shame. |
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Post by Yukito on Dec 21, 2013 13:36:18 GMT -5
I don't know about the best action games on the 3DS, some of the original titles, like Kid Icarus, Charisou and Code of Princess are equal to these classics, if you ask me.
I did want to answer why they chose the first Streets of Rage rather than 2 or 3. It was answered in M2's interview with Game Watch. I'm not sure if that part just isn't translated or what, but right at the beginning of the interview, he was asked literally, "Why the first one, instead of II or III?" Horii answered that because he wants to do 2 afterwards, if Okunari will let him. So I guess you could say it's a marketing strategy, where Streets of Rage comes first because fewer people would buy it if it came after 2.
Remember this whole thing came about because they were tinkering around with Space Harrier and Sega let them publish it to enormous success. By the time Streets of Rage was done, the whole line had seen waaaaaay more success than any of them had anticipated. There were lots of sales surprises for them, especially for Altered Beast, which enjoyed way more attention than they thought it would get because of an Internet meme that exploded on Twitter in Japan during its release. So at the time they were deciding on Streets of Rage, they already knew they had a green light for a second line of 3D classics, so they have a good chance of getting around to Streets of Rage 2.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 21, 2013 13:57:00 GMT -5
I don't know about the best action games on the 3DS, some of the original titles, like Kid Icarus, Charisou and Code of Princess are equal to these classics, if you ask me. Oh you're being nice! Kid Icarus Uprising frankly trumps all of these games. BUT... it's not 6 bucks! I was first of all judging them in the context of what the e-shop can offer for cheap. And then thinking about it, and again, most of all, thinking how cheap those games are! Super Shinobi 2 for exemple, may well be considered by a lot of retro gamers as plain better than the new, 3DS-exclusive game we got... and I'm afraid they would have a point. So: like a lot of us here, I may not use the 3DS as an action games machine, but more and more as an RPG machine. Still, lots of action I love on it: Mario Kart 7, 3D Land, and New 2: 3 marvels. They are my top 3. (This time around, Mario got some mad love on the 3DS.) My 4th action game is "Space Harrier"; And my 5th Kid Icarus, a bit lower because frankly, frack those hand cramps!  And I love Liberation Maiden, Ridge Racer 3d, even Monkey Ball I got, and I ove Samurai Warriors Chronicles. Most of my top five is made of new, full price, AAA Nintendo titles. But I'm not playing the salesman when I say Space Harrier deserves being in my top 5. It's simply a great, different and cheap game that is an awesome addition to the 3DS. So sorry, I should have explained better the context of my declaration. But in the end, well, I stand by what I said: these are great, great action games worthy of the best reputation on 3DS, and they're cheap - and of course there are a lot of other great action games. But These conversions are truly able to reach the top of my list 30 years after their release, and this I find pretty impressive. And if you like Kid Icarus Uprising, you will love Space Harrier and Galaxy Force quite a lot! |
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Post by Weasel on Dec 21, 2013 13:59:15 GMT -5
Galaxy Force 2 pretty much justifies this entire line, to be honest.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 21, 2013 14:09:49 GMT -5
Galaxy Force 2 pretty much justifies this entire line, to be honest. It looks better than anything polygonal I've played at home in the 32-bit era. The smoothed sprites make it look eons better and smoother than the arcade/Saturn versions. It offers a fascinating glimpse into what video games could have developed into without polygons. And I admit that it looks so busy, so colorful and full of graphical tricks and energy, it makes replaying Starfox 643DS a bit disheartening. But then again, I never found SF64 graphically striking; the most gorgeous on-rail shooters have always belonged to SEGA... (Panzer Dragoon Orta looks better to me now than in 2002). |
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