|
Post by mainpatr on Aug 19, 2014 1:04:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by derboo on Aug 19, 2014 1:21:55 GMT -5
I'm not that well-informed about that game in particular, but when you get to kill an alien creature with a flamethrower even just once in a game, it has to go into the ESRB description, because they are meant to warn parents about the highest extent of violence/horror/sex/etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 1:30:40 GMT -5
Does the ESRB rating truly matter to anyone other than the people selling the game and the people too young to legally purchase it?
|
|
|
Post by wyrdwad on Aug 19, 2014 3:11:24 GMT -5
Yeah, not to spoil the mystique, but when applying for an ESRB submission, you have to specifically highlight the "most pertinent material" in the game. This usually means creating a video featuring *exclusively* the most violent, sex-heavy and swear-heavy scenes in the entire game (which has to be pretty amazing to see in the case of some games, I'd imagine!). So it's not too surprising for an ESRB descriptor to make a game sound a little worse than it is every now and again -- it's pretty much their job as an organization to identify the "worst" content so that parents or guardians don't feel blindsided by those rare scenes that threaten to corrupt the very fabric of society. I've always found the way PEGI handles submissions to be really interesting, personally: with PEGI, you're given a yes/no questionnaire that asks about game content, with the "worst" material being asked about first. Each page of this questionnaire represents one rating lower than the previous page -- so page 1 is for PEGI 18, page 2 is for PEGI 16, etc. As soon as you answer yes to even one question on any given page, the rest of the questionnaire is ignored, because your rating is already determined -- after all, if a game has PEGI 18-worthy content in it, why does PEGI 16-worthy content even matter anymore? Once your rating has been determined, you then send video footage of content that clearly demonstrates why you answered yes to each question on that page (as well as a copy of the game itself and such, of course). A very different approach, but a really logical one that I've always wished ESRB would adopt as well. After all, if we've demonstrated that a game has copious amounts of realistic gore and near-nudity, why does it matter that there are also depictions of alcohol, or gambling? ...My point in mentioning all this, though, is that I imagine if you peruse PEGI descriptors (if such things even exist?), you'll find even more examples of disparity between the descriptor and the actual game... but only because PEGI specifically spotlights the absolute worst content in the game, even more so than ESRB. -Tom
|
|
|
Post by Feynman on Aug 19, 2014 3:31:02 GMT -5
A very different approach, but a really logical one that I've always wished ESRB would adopt as well. After all, if we've demonstrated that a game has copious amounts of realistic gore and near-nudity, why does it matter that there are also depictions of alcohol, or gambling? Well, people have different things that they find acceptable or not though, right? After all, you're allowed to play an M-rated game as a minor, you just can't buy them. A parent buying a game for their teenage kid might be totally okay with a violent military and/or sci-fi shooter, but they draw the line at games with strong sexual content. Or maybe someone really doesn't want their child playing any game with lots of fictional drug use. I think there's some sense in listing the various potentially offensive content a game has, rather than just stopping at the first type of content that gives it a specific age rating and calling it a day.
|
|
|
Post by Garamoth on Aug 19, 2014 8:15:24 GMT -5
After all, you're allowed to play an M-rated game as a minor, you just can't buy them. ESRB ratings are just for laughs. Anybody can buy any game regardless of ratings. It's retailers that got it inside their heads to police the whole thing, which is probably illegal in many places, but hey, who's gonna go to court for the right of kiddies to buy violent sex games?
|
|
|
Post by wyrdwad on Aug 19, 2014 11:29:16 GMT -5
A very different approach, but a really logical one that I've always wished ESRB would adopt as well. After all, if we've demonstrated that a game has copious amounts of realistic gore and near-nudity, why does it matter that there are also depictions of alcohol, or gambling? Well, people have different things that they find acceptable or not though, right? After all, you're allowed to play an M-rated game as a minor, you just can't buy them. A parent buying a game for their teenage kid might be totally okay with a violent military and/or sci-fi shooter, but they draw the line at games with strong sexual content. Or maybe someone really doesn't want their child playing any game with lots of fictional drug use. I think there's some sense in listing the various potentially offensive content a game has, rather than just stopping at the first type of content that gives it a specific age rating and calling it a day. That is a fair point. I can't really dispute that at all. I guess it's just two different approaches, each with their benefits and drawbacks. -Tom
|
|
|
Post by kingmike on Aug 19, 2014 11:38:36 GMT -5
I think to some extent when you run a store you can refuse sales when you want. I just think it can't be discriminated in some ways like race. Or maybe you can be a racist/sexist store owner. I'm not certain, maybe stores don't do that just because it'd be, you know, bad business and give you (deservedly) bad PR.
It's probably because of parents wanting to return games/music/movies after they find out what their kid actually has (either somehow the kid got to the store alone and has the money to buy games, or the parent didn't care when the purchase was made). Less sales of explicit content to minors = less chance of whining parent wanting their money back later.
I remember reading a letter in GamePro back in the day about some angry mom found her kid playing Primal Rage and complained to get her money back and then whined some more to somehow get 250 Best Buys (according to them) to stop selling the game (which sounds a bit of an extreme response).
I remember reading another thread about somehow who worked at GameStop trying to tell a parent what GTA is, parent didn't care. Parent quickly found out and came back half an hour later to return it. Probably happens more often.
|
|
|
Post by kaoru on Aug 19, 2014 12:14:06 GMT -5
I always thought it's interesting that the USK actually plays those games. Like, sure, they compile their own "best of" to show to the main panel, but in an approach that - at least in theory - shows why this stuff happens too. So it's not just the "best of the worst" but actually putting things in context. Which I find pretty important, because it's easy to think a game is way worse if you don't have the specifics of the framing of particular incident. Persona 3 ist easy to misunderstand if you just go "so, those kids shoot themselves in the head and out comes a penis riding a chariot".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 12:34:33 GMT -5
Kenji Eno deliberately concealed the cannibalism scene in D from the ESRB so it would get a T instead of an M.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 14:02:57 GMT -5
Somehow I doubt many parents would have been buying D for their underage children anyway, so that wasn't much of a problem. Besides it's what, 5 seconds of the game?
|
|
|
Post by acidonia on Aug 19, 2014 15:28:24 GMT -5
That kinda explains why Pegi Ratings can be so random at times. Dragons Dogma must of got a 18+ just because of the first scene in the game yet UK age rating was 12 so pretty much a PG 13 another one that does the same is Gone home German age rating is 6 yet Pegi one is 16+.
|
|
|
Post by wyrdwad on Aug 19, 2014 17:44:54 GMT -5
That kinda explains why Pegi Ratings can be so random at times. Dragons Dogma must of got a 18+ just because of the first scene in the game yet UK age rating was 12 so pretty much a PG 13 another one that does the same is Gone home German age rating is 6 yet Pegi one is 16+. I still think it's amazing that Ys: The Oath in Felghana got a PEGI 16 solely because of the stabbing scene. All of our other Ys games, as well as Trails in the Sky, got a PEGI 12 rating. PEGI 16 is, incidentally, the same rating as both of our Corpse Party titles on PSP (both of which we assumed would get PEGI 18 ratings, but they were quickly downgraded after submission when PEGI reviewed the footage). So Corpse Party and Ys: The Oath in Felghana are on the same level, apparently. Somehow. -Tom
|
|
|
Post by Feynman on Aug 19, 2014 17:52:34 GMT -5
Come to think of it, if Falcom made the violence in Ys more realistic instead of keeping it PG, the general vicinity around Adol would probably look an awful lot like some of those Corpse Party rooms after Adol finishes blendering everything in sight.
|
|
|
Post by acidonia on Aug 19, 2014 18:45:28 GMT -5
That kinda explains why Pegi Ratings can be so random at times. Dragons Dogma must of got a 18+ just because of the first scene in the game yet UK age rating was 12 so pretty much a PG 13 another one that does the same is Gone home German age rating is 6 yet Pegi one is 16+. I still think it's amazing that Ys: The Oath in Felghana got a PEGI 16 solely because of the stabbing scene. All of our other Ys games, as well as Trails in the Sky, got a PEGI 12 rating. PEGI 16 is, incidentally, the same rating as both of our Corpse Party titles on PSP (both of which we assumed would get PEGI 18 ratings, but they were quickly downgraded after submission when PEGI reviewed the footage). So Corpse Party and Ys: The Oath in Felghana are on the same level, apparently. Somehow. -Tom Ys: The Ark of Napishtim is like this in Europe too The PS2 version is rated 7+ for violence and fear though the PSP version is 12+ just for bad language. Though both use the exact same script so there swearing in both versions yet there's no voice acting in the PSP version so its more noticeable in the PS2 version. Pegi never put a bad language icon or fear icon on any game 16+ or higher for some reason. Sometimes pegi age ratings go up and go down for releases as well. Another case id Devilish on DS its all ages everywhere yet Rated T in US because of the first image you see in the game. Though they is no blood in the actual gameplay. I think this was the reason Persona 3 Fes was rated 16+ yet PS2 and PSP version of regular persona 3 are rated 12+. assets1.ignimgs.com/2005/05/26/devilish-ball-bounder-20050525054355667-1138267_640w.jpgIn the opposite a totally harmless DS puzzle game called Soul Bubbles is rated 12+ in Europe for Violence yet all ages everywhere else they is no violence in the game you just blow a bubble around to a exit.
|
|