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Post by thoothan on Sept 17, 2014 10:55:51 GMT -5
They check both boxes : first person and guns, but they always seem like they lean too far on the side of RPG to just categorize them as an FPS.
Like New Vegas also and SS2 feel a lot more like RPGs with guns than they do like FPS games.
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Post by Weasel on Sept 17, 2014 11:06:55 GMT -5
I would personally still consider them FPS games, if only because while the RPG elements account for the actual damage, whether you've hit the target or dodged incoming hits still depends on the player's reflex.
Something like Hellgate London or Star Trek Online, where aiming merely dictates what target you're selecting, those are more RPG than FPS.
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Post by elektrolurch on Sept 17, 2014 11:52:11 GMT -5
games like this are one of the reasons I personally feel that FPS is a bad way of categorizing games. take esp. system schock II and compare it with contemporary fps. it conveys completely different emotions. its about survival, resource manegement, horror, not so much about action, empowerement and simply shooting wave after wave of enemies compare this to other media. esp movie genres are way more specific about the emotions they convey. see alien and alienII (aka aliens). sure you could say both are sci fi movies. but you could also argue that the first is a survival horror movie, while the latter is more of an action movie. so why don't we say something like........system shock II is a survival horror game, deus ex is something of a cyberpunk/rpg noir, and fallout III can be described as a post apocalyptic rpg. all games may have rpg elements, but they arent what defines them as an experience. same with the alien movies, sure they are all sci fi movies, but the distinctiv emotions they trigger makes them stand out from one another.
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Post by strizzuth on Sept 17, 2014 12:13:37 GMT -5
I feel like they're definitely more on the RPG side than shooter side. Charging in guns blazing is probably the worst way to play Deus Ex. The game's mechanics and even its tutorial level make it clear that it's better to use stealth and hacking than an all out fire fight. The game has more of an emphasis on player choices. You choose how to get through the game's semi open areas rather than running through a mostly linear corridor. You are encouraged to use stealth and smarts over bullets, but ultimately it is up to you. You even spend a lot of time simply interacting with NPCs and your dialogue choices can impact what happens next. If you want action you can have it, but at a cost.
System Shock was made by the people who worked on the Ultima Underworld games so there are a lot of underlying similarities. It's played from the first person and has shooting, but that's like saying Spartan X is viewed from the side and has jumping. That alone doesn't make it a platformer. The game is about exploring, surviving and puzzle solving. It has more in common with graphical adventures and survival horror than the first person view would let on. While you could easily argue that Deus Ex is an FPS with stuff tacked on to make it more interesting (and I'd disagree with you on that), System Shock is drastically different from Doom which came out only 9 months before.
When placing games in genres, a lot of people focus on obvious surface elements like first person view or experience points, but really you should be looking at what the game is all about. What kind of experience did the developer want you to have? Shooters are all about exciting fire fights. In Deus Ex, the game discourages you from getting into shoot outs in MANY ways (including in game characters telling you not to be so trigger happy). System Shock has lots of combat but it's only one of the game's components and the game is about so much more than that. Even though it looks like an FPS, it feels completely different. This is why I started the thread questioning the use of FPS as a genre.
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Post by jorpho on Sept 17, 2014 18:48:41 GMT -5
games like this are one of the reasons I personally feel that FPS is a bad way of categorizing games. I think categorizing games in general is an exercise in pedantry.
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Post by PooshhMao on Sept 19, 2014 1:27:20 GMT -5
Yes, they are. They are FPS games with heavy RPG elements.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 3:39:36 GMT -5
Never played System Shock 2, but Deus Ex is certainly an FPS. It's also a CRPG. Nothing wrong with being multiple genres at once.
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Post by TheChosen on Sept 19, 2014 4:00:27 GMT -5
I play Deus Ex a lot like an FPS, mostly because I get sick of people telling me to use silent takedowns and pacifism and all that. Just shut up Paul and gimme the GEP-Gun.
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Post by zellsf on Sept 19, 2014 12:30:39 GMT -5
Never played System Shock 2, but Deus Ex is certainly an FPS. It's also a CRPG. Nothing wrong with being multiple genres at once. This pretty much. I would also definitely call System Shock 2 a FPS. Shooting everything you come across is definitely an option, even if not as encouraged as it is in Deus Ex. Genres are not mutually exclusive things and I'm wondering where people get the idea that they are :/
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Post by GamerL on Sept 20, 2014 4:38:59 GMT -5
hmmmm I would say System Shock 2 is an FPS with RPG elements and Deus Ex is an RPG with FPS elements
why do I say that? well in System Shock 2 you're always in danger and frequently fighting enemies more often than not with guns, in Deus Ex on the other hand there's so much downtime, talking to people and whatnot, plus if you're playing it right you sneak around more often than you shoot, it's rare that you're in a full on firefight in Deus Ex (at least how I play it)
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Post by Gendo Ikari on Sept 20, 2014 6:54:22 GMT -5
I fire a shot only when necessary in SS2. True, I also exploit the clunky combat system (you can "hug" a large bot and whack it), but I'd rather damage from close range and finish with one or two bullets, also to avoid being damaged by the explosions of turrets and bots. Obviously, with protocol droids there's no alternative than shooting unless you want to get hurt a lot.
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Post by Terrifying on Sept 20, 2014 10:26:55 GMT -5
I personally regard Deus Ex as an RPG. I even regard the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series as being RPGs "with FPS-elements". Fallout 3 too...
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Post by strizzuth on Sept 20, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5
I play Deus Ex a lot like an FPS, mostly because I get sick of people telling me to use silent takedowns and pacifism and all that. Just shut up Paul and gimme the GEP-Gun. That's the beauty of the game. You can play it however the hell you want and it's not necessarily "wrong". this is why there are so many different options for tackling levels. I definitely feel like Deus Ex and SS2 are different enough from other games to say they are a different genre. Maybe. Kinda. Genres are always murky if you overdefine them and microgenres are all but useless unless they become so big that they splinter off to become their own thing. And yes, games can be more than one genre. This is why we have so many hybrid genres (action RPG, strategic action, tactical RPG...). I've heard a lot of people talk about "FPSRPGs" but I kinda feel like we need a better term than that because SS2 and Deus Ex just feel like a very different sort of game to me than Borderlands which is very much an RPG played in first person with guns.
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Post by Ike on Sept 21, 2014 13:11:48 GMT -5
Here's a handy flow chart: Is it an FPS?
Is the game in first person perspective? | v--------------No------------|-----------Yes--------------v It is not a FPS.................................Do you shoot things frequently? .........................................| ^---------------------------------No--------|----Yes----v ...........................................................................It is a FPS.
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Post by strizzuth on Sept 21, 2014 13:34:31 GMT -5
Here's a handy flow chart: Is it an FPS?
Is the game in first person perspective? | v--------------No------------|-----------Yes--------------v It is not a FPS.................................Do you shoot things frequently? .........................................| ^---------------------------------No--------|----Yes----v ...........................................................................It is a FPS.
Oh OK. Skyrim and Portal are FPSes. Thanks!
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