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Post by zerker on Dec 21, 2014 17:48:47 GMT -5
Let's not go overboard here. Using VVVVVV as a example, there's a checkpoint every second room
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Post by vetus on Dec 21, 2014 17:51:47 GMT -5
Still doesn't change the fact that it's all about spikes, spikes, spikes.
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Post by Weasel on Dec 21, 2014 18:44:04 GMT -5
Let's not go overboard here. Using VVVVVV as a example, there's a checkpoint every second room Jet Set Willy, VVVVVV's closest relative, literally checkpoints you at the entrance of every room.
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Post by Elvin Atombender on Dec 22, 2014 11:19:35 GMT -5
Speaking of Jet Set Willy,a staple of many computer games from the 80's was forcing the player to draw a map to figure out your destination. Nowadays most games rely on automaps (which aren't necessarily bad) and big arrows pointing at stuff (which are bad).
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Post by Weasel on Dec 22, 2014 17:31:20 GMT -5
Speaking of Jet Set Willy,a staple of many computer games from the 80's was forcing the player to draw a map to figure out your destination. Nowadays most games rely on automaps (which aren't necessarily bad) and big arrows pointing at stuff (which are bad). I like automaps. What I don't like is when games insist on revealing 100% of them right off the bat. It's one of the things I disliked about Metroid Fusion. Didn't mind the railroading so much, but it feels pretty insulting when the game pretty much gives you the entire map as soon as you enter a new area.
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Post by Gentlegamer on Dec 22, 2014 17:46:15 GMT -5
Old Tomb Raider - grid based movement gives the player precise information on environment, encourages exploration, despite "tank controls" had skill-based platforming segments, the game was exploration and puzzles with a few fights (TR2 criticized for too many human gun fights)
New Tomb Raider - scripted auto movement through environments, wave based shooter, no exploration
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Post by JDarkside on Dec 22, 2014 18:27:35 GMT -5
Speaking of Jet Set Willy,a staple of many computer games from the 80's was forcing the player to draw a map to figure out your destination. Nowadays most games rely on automaps (which aren't necessarily bad) and big arrows pointing at stuff (which are bad). I like automaps. What I don't like is when games insist on revealing 100% of them right off the bat. It's one of the things I disliked about Metroid Fusion. Didn't mind the railroading so much, but it feels pretty insulting when the game pretty much gives you the entire map as soon as you enter a new area. I didn't mind it so much with how the game was laid out with all the locked doors. It just hinted at secret passages, mostly.
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Post by zerker on Dec 22, 2014 20:06:02 GMT -5
Except Metroid Fusion DOESN'T reveal the whole map. A good chunk of each area is hidden from the initial download, especially in sector 2. It's not like Super Metroid is much different based on how quickly you find the corresponding map room.
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tmk
New Member
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Post by tmk on Dec 23, 2014 12:06:11 GMT -5
Well the obvious one is how old FPSes like Doom or Half-Life have health restored with boxes, and newer ones like Gears of War or Halo use regenerating health. I actually really enjoy that sort of rush when you find a health kit at 12 health, and having to play more cautiously. I don't mind two-layer health like Republic Commando because there's still that satisfying feeling of finding health when you desperately need it, without as much of the frustration when you keep dying and having to load from your last save. I'd rather focus on the problem of SPEED. Old design philosophy of shooters was based around projectiles and running, modern is based on gimmicks and/or stealth. One great example of how this modern idea of movement differs from the past one is actually implemented in Wolfenstein: TNO. When you enter the dream sequence you are able to "play" the old Wolfenstein - but your movement speed is atrocious.
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Post by Weasel on Dec 23, 2014 12:14:50 GMT -5
And yet it feels just as "wrong" when a modern FPS on a modern engine tries to amp the player movement speeds up to "classic" levels. I had a lot of trouble controlling my movement in the Rise of the Triad remake.
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tmk
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Post by tmk on Dec 23, 2014 12:16:38 GMT -5
Yup, have to agree on that one... although I didn't have problems in the shooter sections of the new RotT. I had problems with platforming: couldn't get past the chambers of trials (or whatever it was called) because I found the idea of jumping over lava pits in first person perspective ridiculous. The combat was OK, though. At least I remember it as something pretty refreshing after Modern Warfare 1-3 and stuff like that.
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Post by vetus on Dec 23, 2014 13:09:50 GMT -5
(TR2 criticized for too many human gun fights) Reminds me that TR1 was criticised for too many animal kills. Non-gamers love to bitch on anything popular. PETA proves that all the time. They even complained about all-ages cooking games. Why don't they complain about TV cooking shows, huh?
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Dec 23, 2014 19:14:13 GMT -5
Old Tomb Raider - grid based movement gives the player precise information on environment, encourages exploration, despite "tank controls" had skill-based platforming segments, the game was exploration and puzzles with a few fights (TR2 criticized for too many human gun fights) New Tomb Raider - scripted auto movement through environments, wave based shooter, no exploration Is this true? I never played the Sqenix TRs, though according to this I doubt I would want to play it anyway. Until now I just stayed away cause of all this oh so tragic, "realistic" story bullshit. I have to say though I was never really good at the original games, mostly because of the tankcontrols, but that's also the reason I like Legend and Anniversary. Lara was still badass and controlled well!
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Post by Terrifying on Dec 24, 2014 4:04:47 GMT -5
Also, I don't think it's really fair to use one of the better DOOM maps. That game had some really unfair bullshit ones too. I would prefer that over a straight line. But, the "fun" of modern shooters is the death match. Not campaign. A concept games like Quake 3 gave the world. If that's what the people want, so be it. I'm kind of sad I'll never see Outlaws 2. (Read as: aagggggghhhhh) However, we're getting throwback style games anyway. DOOM and DOOM II still have a unmatched level-design I think. In fact, it was only a couple of years ago I discovered the last possible secret in DOOM II. DOOM had a brilliant single-player and multi-player mode. Many games had until the domination of these single-corridor-"shooter"-movies. Modern military "shooters" are corporate, multi-million dollar advertisements for the despicable modern warfare practices. I hate them with a passion.
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Post by Elvin Atombender on Dec 24, 2014 5:20:02 GMT -5
Also, I don't think it's really fair to use one of the better DOOM maps. That game had some really unfair bullshit ones too. Personally I cannot stand some of the maps designed by Sandy Petersen for Doom 2, especially The Chasm, The Pit and of course Nirvana.
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