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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 5, 2015 23:36:22 GMT -5
So I'm not sure I'm actually ready to buy an MSX yet, but I've decided that... eventually, I want one. Probably sometime this year.
I've looked into it a bit, and it sounds like my best bet is to find at least a working MSX2+ system, as they're common enough to not run me an arm and a leg, and support the vast majority of MSX games. But if I'm to buy one, I need to know specifics -- what sorts of things should I be looking for in the auction text (other than "tested, works" or its Japanese equivalent)? Any RAM recommendations, extra sound chips, etc. I should be sure to watch out for?
Also, a few nitty-gritty questions:
* The voltage difference between the U.S. and Japan is minimal, but it's enough that I'd worry about it frying older electronics like this. Is there a solution you might suggest, or has anyone else confirmed whether or not there's an issue here?
* What kind of CRT is required?
* What kind of controller would you recommend I look for?
I'm trying not to spend a whole butt-ton of money on this, but am willing to shell out a sizable one-time payment of $200 or so for the system itself, and up to $50 or $60 per component/game for everything else I'd need, so I think I'm within reasonable budget here. But I'm SO clueless about all of this stuff, so I thought it might behoove me to ask around on here and on ALoY to see if anyone had any suggestions for me.
I also noted in the subject line that I have a trade offer -- basically, in an effort to subsidize the frivolous purchasing of an old Japanese computer system, I looked through my game collection for anything I owned that might be valuable, and I found something: Rule of Rose. The American PS2 release, opened but in absolutely pristine condition (I barely played it, and I take really good care of my games, so it's basically mint). Seems to go for up to $200 on eBay in this condition, so I figured I'd offer to trade it to someone for just the base MSX2+ or higher system, provided (1) it's in working order, (2) it has both cartridge and disk slots, and (3) its specs aren't crap.
(And hey, as long as you're selling me your MSX2+, you might as well throw in your games too, right? Hee hee...)
I also own Haunting Ground on PS2 in a similarly pristine condition, but that's worth less than Rule of Rose and I'm much more hesitant to give it up. But if the right offer comes along, I might consider it!
...So, any info or takers? Please drop me a PM if you want to trade, or reply to this topic if you have info -- and thanks, very much, if you do either!
-Tom
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Mar 6, 2015 18:33:11 GMT -5
Ebay can be quite expensive, especially HitJapan (where I got mine from) I'd recommend looking into the trading forum at www.msx.org . The prices are way more sensible than most ebay sellers. I have no idea about the voltage stuff, but I'm sure they can also help with this. As for the screen. Any TV that can handle the correct Hz of the system should work. Tough this is only a concern for you should you buy an european MSX2. You can use a normal AV cable or an RGB scart cable (though japanese RGB also uses a different pinout, keep that in mind) Also, standard MSX2+ models won't have more than 64KB RAM, while there are several european MSX2 models which have 128 or 256KB. While this is fine for all japanese games, several homebrews and translations need more than 64KB (Snatcher for example) I'd recommend getting an Megaflashrom SCC+SD from here www.msxcartridgeshop.com/ It also acts as RAM upgrade though it's not too cheap either. I still need one too ._.' Now for the controllers. While it's possible to use just the keyboard, a pad is way more comfortable. I have one of those images.generation-msx.nl/hardware/94a63275.pngIt works well, but is also really tiny. There are also several Famicom-type pads. You can also get PSX to MSX adapters of ebay, and there's also this thing called Joymega Adapter, which lets you use Sega controllers. Though you have to build this by yourself Ahh, that reminds me... While the ports are the same DB9s as everywhere else the pinout is different too. If you have old homecomputer joysticks with platform switchs, check if they have an Amstrad CPC setting. That should work fine Your disk drive should support Dual Density (720k) disks and its belt should be okay too (easy to replace though, at least in my HitBit) I probably forgot most of the other things I wanted to mention, but I hope this already helps. If you need any further advice, look if I'm in the IRC channel, it's much easier this way |
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Post by kyouki on Mar 22, 2015 7:55:46 GMT -5
Really good info from DerZocker here. I will add that you will want 128k of memory (not video memory) as even a few commercial Japanese releases require it (mostly RPGs). If you can get FM onboard, do so. If not you will want to get either FM PAK (can be pricey but also works as a memory cart for many games), or the cheaper FM PAQ Lites carts. Otherwise you will be stuck with onboard PSG music. The Megaflashrom is sadly out of stock, though the guy told me he plans on producing another batch a couple months from now. There are some really good games on floppy disk, so load on up blanks  It can be a pain to find disk images online, and a lot of the images are not cracked so you won't be able to just write them to a floppy and play them. You can use 1.44 MB floppies with no problem if you tape over the hole on the upper left of the disk- this forces disks to read them as 720k disks. |
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 22, 2015 14:23:24 GMT -5
Oh, crap, didn't know the Megaflashrom was out of stock -- I've had my eye on an MSX2+ with 64k of RAM that's actually a pretty good price, and was just about to pull the trigger on the sale with the expectation that I'd make up for the lack of RAM and FM by buying a Megaflashrom (as apparently that'll make up for all of it)... but if it's out of stock, that changes things a bit. When he says a couple months from now, do you think he actually means a couple months from now? Because I might still do it, since I doubt I'll be able to find another MSX2+ for this good a price again ($311, shipping included, from an American seller, tested and working with a brand new refurbished FDD belt). Looks like a couple of the games I want to play are available for decent prices (Goonies and King Kong II in particular), so those can always tide me over until the new Megaflashrom is available.  -Tom |
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 22, 2015 14:55:06 GMT -5
Really good info from DerZocker here. I will add that you will want 128k of memory (not video memory) as even a few commercial Japanese releases require it (mostly RPGs). If you can get FM onboard, do so. If not you will want to get either FM PAK (can be pricey but also works as a memory cart for many games), or the cheaper FM PAQ Lites carts. Otherwise you will be stuck with onboard PSG music. The Megaflashrom is sadly out of stock, though the guy told me he plans on producing another batch a couple months from now. There are some really good games on floppy disk, so load on up blanks It can be a pain to find disk images online, and a lot of the images are not cracked so you won't be able to just write them to a floppy and play them. You can use 1.44 MB floppies with no problem if you tape over the hole on the upper left of the disk- this forces disks to read them as 720k disks. How much is the Megaflashrom anyway? |
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 22, 2015 15:21:06 GMT -5
Really good info from DerZocker here. I will add that you will want 128k of memory (not video memory) as even a few commercial Japanese releases require it (mostly RPGs). If you can get FM onboard, do so. If not you will want to get either FM PAK (can be pricey but also works as a memory cart for many games), or the cheaper FM PAQ Lites carts. Otherwise you will be stuck with onboard PSG music. The Megaflashrom is sadly out of stock, though the guy told me he plans on producing another batch a couple months from now. There are some really good games on floppy disk, so load on up blanks It can be a pain to find disk images online, and a lot of the images are not cracked so you won't be able to just write them to a floppy and play them. You can use 1.44 MB floppies with no problem if you tape over the hole on the upper left of the disk- this forces disks to read them as 720k disks. How much is the Megaflashrom anyway? The one that does everything (RAM upgrade, FM upgrade, etc.) is a whopping 140 euros, so it ain't cheap... -Tom |
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 22, 2015 15:25:03 GMT -5
How much is the Megaflashrom anyway? The one that does everything (RAM upgrade, FM upgrade, etc.) is a whopping 140 euros, so it ain't cheap... -Tom Indeed. But if it's got those extras that's not too bad considering what most flashcarts cost I suppose (or games like Solid Snake cost, for that matter). |
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Post by kyouki on Mar 23, 2015 10:54:45 GMT -5
Oh, crap, didn't know the Megaflashrom was out of stock -- I've had my eye on an MSX2+ with 64k of RAM that's actually a pretty good price, and was just about to pull the trigger on the sale with the expectation that I'd make up for the lack of RAM and FM by buying a Megaflashrom (as apparently that'll make up for all of it)... but if it's out of stock, that changes things a bit. When he says a couple months from now, do you think he actually means a couple months from now? Because I might still do it, since I doubt I'll be able to find another MSX2+ for this good a price again ($311, shipping included, from an American seller, tested and working with a brand new refurbished FDD belt). Looks like a couple of the games I want to play are available for decent prices (Goonies and King Kong II in particular), so those can always tide me over until the new Megaflashrom is available. -Tom I trust the guy for some reason, just seemed honest and of course he has a great reputation anywhere you ask. He specifically said "I’ll produce more units in 6 weeks or so." If you can find a good deal for a MSX2+ in working condition, i would say go for it! There are still a TON of games you can play with 64k RAM... the only ones I can think of that require 128k are Phantasie I-IV. Most ROMs carts will work fine, and if you get yourself a box of 2HD floppies and cover up the holes they will read fine on an MSX floppy. I have only had mine up and running for a few days now, and honestly I would be pleased with it even if no other Megaflashroms are ever produced. It is a damned cool computer with probably the best library of games out of any 8 bit (with the exception of the mighty C64). P.S. Definitely get one of the FM carts for some fantastic music. |
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Mar 23, 2015 11:16:17 GMT -5
Maybe you can get an older Megaflashrom SCC for cheap somewhere. I can't imagine there's still a huge demand for it (as most are hunting down the SD version probably) Even if 1MB and no RAM are a nuisance for me, I wouldn't want to miss the cart. It also was "only" around 60-70€ when I bought it new, so maybe you're lucky. As for floppies, you want the Disk Manager from Lex Lechz www.lexlechz.at/en/software.htmlWorks fine on Win7, though I have to use my '04 tower to write disks as it has a built in floppy drive. No USB disk drive I tried on my laptop (which is my main computer) was able to cope with 720k disks. Ah that reminds me you also need disks to write to the old Megaflashrom. You have to put the roms together with a text file and a .com on a disk. Afterwards you transfer the roms onto the cart via Disk-Basic. I suppose you can do all this via SD card on the new versions |
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Post by kyouki on Mar 25, 2015 22:53:27 GMT -5
Dee Liteyears offers more good advice. wyrdwadDisk Manager works really well, just ignore any errors it gives and write the disk as is. MSXForm is a good tool for just formatting disks (though you can also just do this on the MSX itself). If you stick with the TOSEC dsks you can find online, you will have a TON of great games to play even without the flashcart. Any 1.44 meg 3.5 inch floppies should work assuming you cover up the HD/DD hole with some tape. MSXForm will format them to the correct format. Like I said, if you can get a good deal I would go for it. I don't have a flashcart yet, but am 100% happy with my MSX as is tbh. I am 99% sure the flashcart does not do FM music, so you will want to look into that. The difference between onboard PSG and FM is like night and day, and while some games do wonders with PSG (Hydlide 3 comes to mind), FM is worth it for sure. The Japanese cart FM PAC is the best since it offers backup storage RAM that a lot of games support, but it can be pricey (5000~10000 yen on yahoo auctions). If you just want the FM music, there are cheaper alternatives in production now such as FM PAQ Lite.
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 25, 2015 23:33:24 GMT -5
Dee Liteyears offers more good advice. wyrdwadDisk Manager works really well, just ignore any errors it gives and write the disk as is. MSXForm is a good tool for just formatting disks (though you can also just do this on the MSX itself). If you stick with the TOSEC dsks you can find online, you will have a TON of great games to play even without the flashcart. Any 1.44 meg 3.5 inch floppies should work assuming you cover up the HD/DD hole with some tape. MSXForm will format them to the correct format. Like I said, if you can get a good deal I would go for it. I don't have a flashcart yet, but am 100% happy with my MSX as is tbh. I am 99% sure the flashcart does not do FM music, so you will want to look into that. The difference between onboard PSG and FM is like night and day, and while some games do wonders with PSG (Hydlide 3 comes to mind), FM is worth it for sure. The Japanese cart FM PAC is the best since it offers backup storage RAM that a lot of games support, but it can be pricey (5000~10000 yen on yahoo auctions). If you just want the FM music, there are cheaper alternatives in production now such as FM PAQ Lite. The flashcart definitely does offer support for Konami SCC and SCC+ sound chips, though I'm still a total MSX newbie, so I have no idea if that's the FM you're referring to or not. Any details you can give would be greatly appreciated. -Tom |
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Post by kyouki on Mar 25, 2015 23:52:25 GMT -5
wyrdwadIt does support SCC, which is a sound chip found in a lot of Konami cartridge games... however, there is another sound standard supported by a lot of non-Konami games (especially disk-based games) called MSX-MUSIC. Some MSX2+ computers have the hardware built in, but not a lot. I think Turbo-Rs generally have it. Info on MSX-MUSICThe "official" solution is the Panasoft FM-PAC, which also has battery backup support (it basically functions as a memory card for a good number of MSX2 cart-based games). You just plug it into slot 2 and forget about it from then on. You can also get cheaper carts that basically duplicate the music function only (FM-PAQ lite for example). A lot of really great games support MSX-MUSIC, including lots of disks/carts from Falcom, Compile, KOEI, and Wolfteam. Generally speaking, the quality is somewhere between Sega Mark III w/FM sound and Megadrive (in mono of course). Some games use both onboard PSG and FM music for some really amazing stuff (Xak springs to mind, maybe the MSX Final Fantasy also) that imo blows away all the best music Megadrive is capable of.
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Post by wyrdwad on Mar 26, 2015 2:12:33 GMT -5
Hmmmm... according to that site you linked, "Most MSX2+ and all the MSX turboR machines have MSX-Music built in, including the 16kB of FM-Basic which allows user to write music and add into their own BASIC programs." I did finally purchase an Panasonic WX MSX2+ recently, so let me see if I can pull up some specs on it... www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=621Looks like it includes "MSX-Music Basic Rom." Which I assume is the FM in question, no? Guess I got lucky. -Tom |
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Post by kyouki on Mar 26, 2015 4:20:58 GMT -5
wyrdwadYou got a nice machine indeed "SOUND PSG (3 voices) + MSX-Music (OPLL YM-2413, 9 channel FM synthesizer)" There you go, FM built in so you have nothing to worry about! Just get yourself some blank floppies and you will be good to go til the flashcart is back in production... [Edit 1] Xak has one of the best soundtracks for the MSX, from what I understand it uses both PSG and FM simultaneously, and it sounds amazing: [Edit 2] I know you can read Japanese, so these scans might be interesting if you haven't seen them yet: MSX MagazineMSX Fan
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Post by kyouki on Jun 1, 2015 7:27:50 GMT -5
Hey wyrdwad Dee Liteyears and other MSX bros Seems that Manuel got some more flash carts in stock... if you hadn't emailed him for a preorder and got notified, now is the time to place your orders |
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