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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Apr 11, 2015 7:26:44 GMT -5
Yes, of course, the Saturn proved it also had what it took to become a respectable 3D machine. But in the retro community, chances are high it's really seen as a veritable 2D gaming powehouse. When you think about it's only real rival as the best 2D console you could buy at the time, you don't think of the Playstation, though. The only acceptable rival is of course, the NEO-GEO, the madly powerful home arcade machine, which, with its incredible games collection, didn't need 3D like, at all.
The Saturn had many more high-level third party developpers... or did it really?
Purely as a 2D console, which one globally comes on top according to you? The NEO-GEO, or the Saturn? All arguments are valid, from sales numbers to artistic merit and, of course, the games. Don't be shy, contribute: If you only can buy one, which one should you get? Or is it a standstill?
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Post by alphex on Apr 11, 2015 7:39:57 GMT -5
The Neo Geo isn't 32 bit, so to answer your question - the Saturn.
In terms of games, there's more stuff on the Neo Geo that I really like, but that's almost 100% due to the fact that Saturn emulation sucked big time for years so I don't think I ever even played any of its exclusives.
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Post by kal on Apr 11, 2015 11:13:47 GMT -5
Being a cartridge/chip set based medium is a huge advantage to the Neo-Geo for purely 2d stuff. The Saturn has some very impressive 2.5d games, far better than anything SNK themselves would ever achieve however.
That being said, the Saturn had stuff like Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari and it's visually amazing and there's little doubt the saturn could do amazing things because the CDs meant a lot more storage for higher resolution art. Although the playstation wasn't exactly known for it - Heart of Darkness and Abe's Oddysee are however examples of that Playstation doing a pretty damn fine job of 2d graphics (even if the graphics are partially pre-rendered does that disqualify it? Because then where do sprites or digitised drawings fall?!).
More or less by merit of having Metal Slug 3 the Neo-Geo comes out in front because the Saturn just never really pushed to be the next big 2d system once the Playstation came out. The industry became all about 3d and since the Neo-Geo couldn't do that they just kept focusing on pushing their machine as far as it could go. But if you're going purely by resolution of art, the Saturn wins out because there's absolutely no way the Neo-Geo could approach the level that CD storage offered.
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Post by Tarsier on Apr 11, 2015 11:20:45 GMT -5
The answer is the Jaguar because it was my first console.
I think I like the Neo Geo's game library more. I couldn't really name any of the Saturn's big sellers without looking them up, but SNK had stuff like Metal Slug and King of Fighters to work with.
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Post by akirikasu on Apr 11, 2015 15:42:31 GMT -5
From a purely computational perspective, the Saturn wins. It can display far more sprites on screen simultaniously, can run at higher resolution, has hardware scaling, rotation, and even transparency support, and even a processor for backgrounds which the Neo-Geo surprisingly lacks, It's faster processors also let better programmers do more with it.
But this is completely ignoring the fact that the Neo-Geo has it's games entirely in ROM, which means that it can access any assets it needs nearly instantaneously. Saturn games need to load into fixed RAM, so it can only display so many different assets at a time. I don't think that it's too much of an issue other than the load times, which is a rather small issue.
But when it comes to the actual games, the Neo-Geo kills. It had been out for a significantly longer time, so it's got a huge library. And we are limiting the Saturn to 2D games, which removes a large segment of it's library, including favorites like Virtua Fighter.
I have to say I'm a bit annoyed at calling the Saturn a 2D console. It continues the internet myth that the Saturn wasn't designed for 3D.
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Post by 320x240 on Apr 11, 2015 16:27:40 GMT -5
Everybody knows it's the CD32...
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Apr 11, 2015 16:55:57 GMT -5
For me the Saturn has the better variety in terms of genres
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Post by caoslayer on Apr 11, 2015 17:02:01 GMT -5
Which are the better 2D games in each console?
The winner would be the one with the best 2D game.
In that case, the contender for Neogeo should be Garou.
What would be the one from Saturn? Princess Crown?
Now, thinking about it twice, it should be the ps3 or the vita by virtue of Dragon Crown.
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Post by jongoo on Apr 11, 2015 19:09:01 GMT -5
Don't forget that the Saturn, even with the RAM cart upgrade, could not handle SNK fighters that well, the issue mostly being very long load times.
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Post by elektrolurch on Apr 12, 2015 7:08:42 GMT -5
Saturn for me, because,although I really love the NeoGeo library, there is not much variety in games, while also regarding only 2D games, the Saturn has way more variety.
The standard NeoGeo controllers are way cooler though.
But all in all it is kind of an unfair comparison because both systems do different things well, and all comes down to your own preferences, as "objectively"they are not really comparable.
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Post by derboo on Apr 12, 2015 10:42:39 GMT -5
Am I the only one who's fundamentally dissatisfied with both machines as "ultimate 2D console" for their lack of transparencies?
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Post by Gentlegamer on Apr 12, 2015 19:48:00 GMT -5
From a purely computational perspective, the Saturn wins. It can display far more sprites on screen simultaniously, Can it really? Neo Geo has no background layers, everything is done with sprites. |
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Post by The Great Klaid on Apr 13, 2015 20:53:44 GMT -5
Saturn has Quackshot, Neo Geo does not. Hence Saturn wins.
In all seriousness, I'm not the best person to answer this, but I do associate Neo Geo games with top tier 2D graphics.
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Post by Scylla on Apr 13, 2015 21:37:19 GMT -5
Kind of a weird question. If we're talking on a technical level, obviously the Saturn is a more advanced machine, having come out much later, being capable of 3D and using the CD format and so on. But the strength of Neo Geo games was always far more determined by the software than the hardware, and with the ever-increasing ROM sizes, the system more than kept up with the home consoles as far as 2D games go. I mean, if you compare the early games to stuff like Last Blade 2, Mark of the Wolves, KOF '99 and '00, it's like night and day. Even Dreamcast ports of Neo Geo games couldn't quite live up to the originals (even if they tried to cover up where they were lacking with flashy additions like 3D backgrounds and redbook arrangements of the original music), and the same goes for Saturn, though to the Saturn's credit its Neo Geo ports were better than the ports on practically any other system of that era (PlayStation Neo Geo ports were often pitiful).
But if you want to talk just pure enjoyment of a system's 2D library, uhhh... I'd take the SNES library over either, so I don't really see either as "the ultimate 2D console" if that just boils down to what system is my favorite for 2D games.
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Post by Reiji-kun on Apr 16, 2015 18:44:48 GMT -5
"The ultimate 2D console" is by and large only opinion. Much like how 'perfection' in and of itself is an opinion.
Both systems have their pros and cons in every aspect, just like any other console. So they're both as good as we should expect them to be.
That said, I lean more towards the Neo Geo for personal reasons, also because I'm not all that familiar with the Saturn's library (though they did have some cool titles). Plus in ways, if I had a choice to stick with only one, it'd be the NG.
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