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Post by Discoalucard on Apr 12, 2015 21:51:44 GMT -5
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Post by The Great Klaid on Apr 13, 2015 0:30:12 GMT -5
Ah Xenogears the iconic "What might have been" game. I still think about that game and realize I've entirely forgotten bits of it and realize I had questions that just were never answered. However, I still say that everybody should play it once, because there really isn't much like it, but don't go in expecting greatness.
Actually kind of thinking about it. It was that generation's Chrono Trigger. All the tropes and cliches finally distilled into one game. And unlike Chrono Trigger retroactively tipping it's hat in fond farewell of what came before it. Xenogears was the Vanguard of what was about to come.
However, great article.
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Post by Ace Whatever on Apr 13, 2015 2:37:23 GMT -5
So Bart & Sigurd being half brothers is silly now? That's a new one. Also, I don't think the explanation of the game's religious and philosophical aspects infers just how dark the game gets at times, and the article is a tad inconsistent with how much it wants to spoil.
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Post by Sac (a.k.a Icaras) on Apr 13, 2015 4:57:53 GMT -5
It still depresses me that after all these years XenoGears still hasn't seen an official PAL region release. I have played the game (In fact, this reminds me it's a game I really need to replay) but....even after all these years and he various NA exclusives that have made their way to us and this gem still eludes us
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Post by hudakj on Apr 13, 2015 5:55:48 GMT -5
This was definitely one of THOSE JRPGs--one that wears its intellectual and religious posturing on its sleeve, with the gameplay somewhat secondary. It's been 15 years since I've last played it, but aside from the potentially overwritten game script, all I can remember was that the random battles were maddeningly frequent at times, very likely intended to pad out the (unfinished) gameplay. However, I do agree that the game as a whole was large and varied.
I never thought of it at the time, but it seems extremely likely that this game was inspired at least in some part by Neon Genesis: Evangelion (and possibly GitS). That sort of narrative style started to become more commonplace in Japanese media for a time and Xenogears is most certainly in the backwash of that. Still, it's probably one of the better attempts at that style. It can come off as pretentious, but not as hollow as many other such imitators in the JRPG scene around that time.
Graphically, I found the sprites in particular to be very lacking, even for 1998. While I applaud the decision to use sprites, it kind of seemed more of a cost-saving decision rather than an artistic one. As far as games that used 2D characters on 2D backgrounds, this one ranks pretty close to the bottom in terms of sprite quality. The 3d environments fared far better, as do the character portraits.
Though I agree it is a great "what might have been" game because I personally consider it half a game or the videogame equivalent of an unfinished workprint with the bugs ironed out. It's really quite stunning how the bottom falls out there. Most games don't present the "we ran out of money" signpost in such a blatant way and tend to hide it better than this.
Has anyone been able to figure out exactly why the game ended up so unfinished? Did the head developer just bite off more he could chew by trying to make the game too big? Was he so absorbed into the narrative that the gameplay element lagged behind? Was there difficulty among the devs to keep steady progress? I wonder because Squaresoft in the late 90s wasn't known for rushing games out the door without a good amount of polish.
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Xenogears
Apr 13, 2015 8:54:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Weasel on Apr 13, 2015 8:54:40 GMT -5
hudakj: Purportedly, budget cuts were the reason behind the game suffering during the second disc, with funds being allocated instead to the next FF game.
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Lord Dalek
Full Member
WHY DOES HE HAVE A SECOND/THIRD/FORTH/ETC. FORM?!?!
Posts: 249
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Post by Lord Dalek on Apr 13, 2015 10:03:07 GMT -5
So are you going to cover the entirety of the Xeno- Pseudofranchise or just Gears?
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Post by hudakj on Apr 13, 2015 15:01:03 GMT -5
Yes, I'm also interested if you'll be doing the whole quasi-series. hudakj: Purportedly, budget cuts were the reason behind the game suffering during the second disc, with funds being allocated instead to the next FF game Okay, the FF element seems to make more sense there. Recalling that FF7 was such a stunning, runaway success for Squaresoft while Xenogears was in development, it's not hard to see Squaresoft siphoning resources from their lesser projects to get FF8 done ASAP. That was one game they brought out in record time, which was impressive given the size and state-of-the-art graphics at the time. Seems Xenogears got the worst of that reshuffling.
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Post by fireballdragon on Apr 13, 2015 18:39:23 GMT -5
What a weird coincidence. I was just looking this game up for the past few days, seeing how UNBELIEVABLY messed up it was, and now there's an article about it here. Don't that beat all.
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Post by Ike on Apr 14, 2015 1:33:46 GMT -5
I just bought this last weekend. I've only put a couple hours into it but I'm interested by the battle system. The story is looking appropriately atrocious so far, with the highlight being a prematurely balding small child commented on the size of his sister's boobs in an attempt to get the hero to agree to kidnap and marry her. And the game forces you to agree to kidnap her to advance the story. It turns out to be a joke, but still. The game is so overwhelmingly late-90s anime that I can feel my hair growing into spikes as I play it
edit: to clarify, bought it on PSN. I think the game shop I worked at a few years ago wanted like 80 dollars for the hard copy, and I would feel ashamed to pay that much for it
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Post by GamerL on Apr 14, 2015 3:47:11 GMT -5
This is one of the JRPGs on my bucket list, but I'm disappointed to hear the game was compromised, I was under the impression it was one of the greats instead of good but flawed, oh well.
By the way, what it is the deal with JRPGs and the Gnostic idea of killing God? I can only assume that culturally the Japanese find monotheism inherently creepy, I mean doesn't Shintoism teach that there are many, many different Gods and Goddesses? So certainly the thought of a single all powerful deity has got to seem a little untrustworthy.
But as to why that idea pops up the most in JPRGs is especially strange, maybe because you can't get more powerful an endboss than God himself?
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Post by hudakj on Apr 14, 2015 4:56:51 GMT -5
This is one of the JRPGs on my bucket list, but I'm disappointed to hear the game was compromised, I was under the impression it was one of the greats instead of good but flawed, oh well. By the way, what it is the deal with JRPGs and the Gnostic idea of killing God? I can only assume that culturally the Japanese find monotheism inherently creepy, I mean doesn't Shintoism teach that there are many, many different Gods and Goddesses? So certainly the thought of a single all powerful deity has got to seem a little untrustworthy. But as to why that idea pops up the most in JPRGs is especially strange, maybe because you can't get more powerful an endboss than God himself? I really don't think it's more that "God" being the highest enemy tier and a natural for a hard final boss. Often times it's not so much THE God, but "The Dark God" or some such manifestation of evil. That or it's some sort of super-human or artificial "creator" that considers itself a god or god-like. I'm not really a fan of the trend of fighting an actual god since it doesn't often seem plausible that "God" could be beaten by a mortal (that is unless you are being supported by another "good" god). In addition it way too often boils down into some sort of generic statement about self-determinism vs fate that gets old long before the first 10 times it's rehashed. Lastly, it often ends up a random final boss (or "final challenge") they threw in because they were too lazy to think up a worthy final boss that made more sense in the narrative. Xenogears doesn't have this problem though. It keeps that element more philosophical while the literal boss is more sci-fi.
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Post by tbb on Apr 14, 2015 15:14:58 GMT -5
it doesn't often seem plausible that "God" could be beaten by a mortal Well, not unless you have a saw.
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Post by Échalote on Apr 14, 2015 16:29:40 GMT -5
Xenogears is one the games i'm afraid of revisiting, 16yo me loved it back in 2009, but after playing the Saga and Blade games (especially Saga), i'm not so sure about it. hudakj: Purportedly, budget cuts were the reason behind the game suffering during the second disc, with funds being allocated instead to the next FF game. I wouldn't be surprised if Takahashi's inability to pace his games decently played a huge part in Gears' financial problems. Seriously, you could probably cut at least 1/4 of the first disc (hello norturne) and the game would be better for it.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Apr 14, 2015 17:18:04 GMT -5
This is one of the JRPGs on my bucket list, but I'm disappointed to hear the game was compromised, I was under the impression it was one of the greats instead of good but flawed, oh well. By the way, what it is the deal with JRPGs and the Gnostic idea of killing God? I can only assume that culturally the Japanese find monotheism inherently creepy, I mean doesn't Shintoism teach that there are many, many different Gods and Goddesses? So certainly the thought of a single all powerful deity has got to seem a little untrustworthy. But as to why that idea pops up the most in JPRGs is especially strange, maybe because you can't get more powerful an endboss than God himself? I really don't think it's more that "God" being the highest enemy tier and a natural for a hard final boss. Often times it's not so much THE God, but "The Dark God" or some such manifestation of evil. That or it's some sort of super-human or artificial "creator" that considers itself a god or god-like. I'm not really a fan of the trend of fighting an actual god since it doesn't often seem plausible that "God" could be beaten by a mortal (that is unless you are being supported by another "good" god). In addition it way too often boils down into some sort of generic statement about self-determinism vs fate that gets old long before the first 10 times it's rehashed. The only positive portrayal of "G-d" in a JRPG that I can think of is maybe Dragon Quest 7. But yeah, the rest of them feel like the whole "fighting fate" shit (which is ironic, given the Japanese maxim about the nail that stands up...). Edit: Also, someone needs to tell the Japanese that quoting/aping Nietzsche is SOOOOO middle-school... while they're at it, maybe they can remind Icyhot too...
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