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Post by wyldesyde on Jul 15, 2015 20:06:14 GMT -5
Ok, I'm a total newb when it comes to the SMT series as a whole. Never played them but were aware of them. My brother has had the first 2 Persona since their release on the PSx and swears by them. (He also has Persona 3 and 4 but says they're a bit different and that I should start the first 2 first)
So what are your thoughts on them as well as the other sub series?
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Post by susanismyalias on Jul 15, 2015 20:21:26 GMT -5
SMT3 Nocturne is the best jrpg on the PS2. It's a great game.
Persona 4 is also a great experience.
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Post by mynameistravis on Jul 15, 2015 20:35:53 GMT -5
SMT3 Nocturne is the best jrpg on the PS2. It's a great game. Persona 4 is also a great experience. Yeah, Nocturne and P4 are great. I started with P1 & 2 and couldn't get into them (might try again in the near future), but P3 & 4's charm through story and design sucked me into the series. I can't seem to get into a lot of the older SMT games after playing the recent games in the series for some reason. It may be because some of them didn't age as well. |
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Post by JDarkside on Jul 15, 2015 20:37:32 GMT -5
The first Persona is really weird, has a lot of gameplay issues because they tried being a strategy game sorta. It's very awkward. The second game is two games, Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment, and tell one full story that also retroactively changes a few things from the first persona to make the bad guy more menacing and connect it to those events. Persona 2 probably has the best narrative in the entire Persona franchise, and definitely the best villain. It's also more traditional JRPG, but in a modern setting
Persona 3 and 4 change the formula significantly, by having you balance dungeon crawling with an in-game year long school year in a light visual novel style play. You have to spend time grinding and exploring dungeons, while also going to school and talking with people around town. Social links with characters give you bonuses when fusing new personas, and also unlocks new ones for you to use, and they're thematically central to the game's narrative.
Persona 3 is heavily flawed, especially in how it doesn't let you directly control allies and instead give them general orders. There are a lot of orders, but the AI bugs at a few points, like Mitsuru's preference in casting bufu at the wrong time or using that fucking charm spell. Persona 4 changes this and gives you direct control options, and it's way less obnoxious to play as a result. Also, instead of one central huge area you climb up, the game has multiple dungeons based on a given character's inner self, all shorter challenges that are more visually interesting and packed with bosses and extras after the main run.
My favorite is 4, but you must play 3 before it or you will just be frustrated by the mechanics. You can try P3P, the PSP port that lets you play as a girl and experience new social links, but cinematics are cut and condensed. P4's Golden remake on Vita has a lot of extra content, but it also introduces a new character that's kind of just the worst thing ever. You can ignore most every P4 spinoff (the Arena games start good, then become just horrifically stupid), though Persona Q, a crossover between 3 and 4, is worth a look. It was made by the Etrian Oddeysse people, so it has more in common with those games (aka super hardcore, draw your own map, git gud).
Persona 1 and both 2s are tricker. The first Persona had horrid translation, but did get a good PSP remake. However, it was directed by the composer of Persona 3 and 4, so the style is generally more of those games, with a new (but wonderful) soundtrack. Persona 2 has weird localization issues. Innocent Sin can only be found on the PSP or Vita (I forget which), while Eternal Punishment (the second of the 2s) is only on the PS1 here with the original messy translation.
That's the beginner franchise, though.
SMT has a ton of spinoffs and different continuities. After Persona, look into Devil Survivor on the DS and 3DS, then the DS' Strange Journey. ST is more traditional SMT but with a sci-fi/horror bent instead of cyberpunk or outright mythical horror. It's hard as balls, but not quite as hard as older SMT games. Also look into the PS2's Digital Devil Saga series, it's pretty impressive and has a really mature story from material that could have been messed up so easily.
And that's just for starters. If you want to dig, you will find some crazy (and difficult) shit. And the mainline games? Nocturne is the third SMT game proper, and it's amazing to this day. Play it as soon as you get the chance ...and if you feel like you can take its balls hard bullshit. SMT4 on the 3DS is pretty great as well, especially because of how utterly hopeless the endings get (there's one where you realize everything is hopeless and just destroy all of reality, I shit you not).
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Post by mynameistravis on Jul 15, 2015 22:41:43 GMT -5
ST is more traditional SMT but with a sci-fi/horror bent instead of cyberpunk or outright mythical horror. It's hard as balls, but not quite as hard as older SMT games. When you say that ST is more traditional SMT, are you also referring to the first person view through dungeons as well? That was one thing about the original series that turned me off from them. |
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Post by Ike on Jul 15, 2015 23:52:02 GMT -5
this is my recommended order:
-Digital Devil Saga or Persona 3 (if you have a high tolerance for anime maybe start with Persona - if you like darker and more subdued then DDS. If you play Persona 3 FES, don't touch the extra content, it's shit.)
-DDS2 or Persona 4 (whichever you played first, play the sequel)
-SMT3 Nocturne (you will understand the battle system well enough by this point that it won't be too hard for you. Nocturne is very challenging)
-DDS or Persona 3, whichever you didn't play on the first round, then move on to its sequel
If you have a 3DS:
Devil Survivor Overclocked (and its sequel if you enjoy it, although I personally like the first better)
Soul Hackers (game just owns and is classic dungeon crawl style)
Strange Journey (brutally hard, cool theme to the game, the only one that doesn't take place in fucking Tokyo)
Skip SMT4, Persona 1 and any of the Persona 4 spin offs. SMT4 is badly designed nonsense and a huge disappointment after 3. Persona 1 is just kind of all around lacking and archaic.
I'm on the fence about 2. I personally really enjoyed both games but I wish they would get a legit remake. I personally prefer the PS1 fan translation of Innocent Sin to the PSP release, which felt clunky to me. Eternal Punishment you can get on PSN.
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Post by caoslayer on Jul 16, 2015 4:14:42 GMT -5
For persona 3, you could start with the psp version, it address some of complains of the original, you can control all your team mates and it doesnt contains the extra scenario from FES. The bad news it is lower production value, they have salvaged most cutscenes so it doesn't shows the gender of your MC.
After playing P3 and P4 you can go to Persona Q that it is a more traditional dungeon crawler rpg so you can be prepared for SMT Strange Journey that is like Q but way hardcore.
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Post by Échalote on Jul 16, 2015 4:40:02 GMT -5
Avoid P3P at all cost, it makes too many compromises to its game design. I'd recommended playing SMT II before Nocturne since one of Nocturne's plot points only take its full meaning when you approach it with the event of SMT II in mind (that and SMT II owns).
Both Raidou games have wonderful Adele Blanc-Sec-esque (the comics, not the terrible Besson movie) and are fairly easy but the first one's random encounter rate is too high for its own good, the second one is easily one of the best ARPG on the platform.
Persona 2 is very easy but the gameplay is kinda clucky but its plot imo.
I'd skip SJ but i'm apparently in the minority.
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Post by kaoru on Jul 16, 2015 6:10:30 GMT -5
The series is pretty cool, because with its million entries and hundred sub serieses, there's probably something to find for everyone. If you like Dungeon Crawlers, there's Digital Devil Story, the SNES Shin Megami Tenseis and the fantastic Strange Journey for you. If you want an SRPG, there's the grimdark Majin Tensei or the anime-stylish Devil Survivor. If you want something more aking to Dragon Quest, Last Bible has you covered. For the Pokemaniacs there's Devil Children (but they are terrible, don't play them). Fans of more Action-RPGs can play the incredibly cool but kinda flawed Kuzunoha Raidou games, and there even was a terrible MMORPG for those that like that kind of thing.
Honestly, any of the PS2 titles are probably your best entry points, depenind on your taste. If you want it more modern and stylish, go for Persona 3 or 4 (but for 3, play the PSP version). For the best entry in the series, but more oldschool, grimdark and hardcore one, there's Nocturne. Digital Devil Saga is kinda similar, but with fixed characters instead of demon recruiting.
The difficulty of the games also became a lot more humane from Nocturne onwards, people kinda exaggerate that part a bit. They aren't easy games, unless you play Persona 3/4/Q or Kuzunoha Raidou, but they aren't that bad. MegaTen just is more reliant on understanding the mechanics than bute forcing your way. One has to get away from the automatic "I have trouble with a part/boss, I have to grind 10 levels" mentality most JRPGs employ, because if your demon/skill setup is shit, powerleveling does little for you in these games, instead they are all about reflecting on your team and what setup would be better for the part you are stuck at. It takes some time getting into, but once it clicks with you, and you always have the right team for each approach on hand, very few parts of these games are actually truly super hard.
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Post by susanismyalias on Jul 16, 2015 8:25:01 GMT -5
P3p is great imo
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Post by mynameistravis on Jul 16, 2015 10:06:51 GMT -5
Avoid P3P at all cost, it makes too many compromises to its game design. Avoid at all cost, though? Sure they altered some things in the design to compensate for the PSP, but that's a small sacrifice to be able to control your team. |
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Post by dskzero on Jul 16, 2015 10:38:32 GMT -5
I've started SMT at least three times.
It's goddamn hard.
It's also incredibly fascinating.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Jul 16, 2015 11:23:40 GMT -5
SMT3 Nocturne is the best jrpg on the PS2. It's a great game. Persona 4 is also a great experience. Yeah, Nocturne and P4 are great. I started with P1 & 2 and couldn't get into them (might try again in the near future), but P3 & 4's charm through story and design sucked me into the series. I can't seem to get into a lot of the older SMT games after playing the recent games in the series for some reason. It may be because some of them didn't age as well. The earlier Personas are pretty hard to go back to, especially the first one. I tried playing P1 when they remade it for PSP and even with the sped-up movement and other features I couldn't make it very far in - I hated the "distance" system and how limited you were in setting up your party's formation; I've also never been a huge fan of having to mess with both guns and melee weapons in the SMT games, and it felt especially bad in that game. P2 is better on all fronts and I really love the story and characters, but there's a lot of clunkiness in the battles and Persona systems they got rid of in P3 and P4 that make it tougher to go back. BTW, didn't get a chance to welcome you yet - good to see you here, my friend! |
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Post by Échalote on Jul 16, 2015 12:19:41 GMT -5
Avoid P3P at all cost, it makes too many compromises to its game design. Avoid at all cost, though? Sure they altered some things in the design to compensate for the PSP, but that's a small sacrifice to be able to control your team. Okay, I'll rephrase it, avoid P3P for a first playthrough (since the female MC route is a fairly different experience ). Having the control of your team is one of the main beef I have with P3P, one of PERSONA3's main concept is that you are only controlling yourself and the rest of the cast have a will of their own, this is why you can't control directly the party or why you have to talk to your party members to change their equipment or add them to your current party. So that + tartarus being a cakewalk + disparition of the fatigue system + worse narration = worst version of the game I've started SMT at least three times. It's goddamn hard. It's also incredibly fascinating. The first hours of SMT I are really brutal but it gets fairly easy after a while (until the last dungeon) because the game's balance is ridiculously broken, hell, there's even a few bosses that you can beat without taking a single hit due to the paralysing effect of zio and nerve bullets. |
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Post by Neo Rasa on Jul 16, 2015 12:53:50 GMT -5
Plus in SMT1/2/3/4 and Persona 1 and 2 it's assumed that you're talking to demons waaaaay more than what I think many players will often do. Once you see how the personalities work and you have a few demons from the area in your party you dismiss most encounters by just talking once. Like it'd be insanely tedious and difficult if you actually fought every encounter. It's also much much easier and useful to run away from fights in the SMT games than it is in many other RPGs.
The only thing I hate about SMT1 is that you have to cast a spell to see a map on the main screen and it shows too small of an area to be useful, otherwise you have to dig through a menu every five seconds to see where you're going. But later ports fixed this.
One thing I do like about Persona 1 is that while setting up the formations can be a pain, it lets you save some formations to a list. Also Persona 1 and 2 have the raddest characters because 90s. It's similar to Phantasy Star II in how it was made with a mindset not yet homogenized into "JRPGs do THIS, WRPGs do THAT," which makes it really interesting to me. While "JRP" and "WRPG" were of course already a thing, all these Japanese RPGs and adventure games that were on the PSX/Saturn before Final Fantasy VII were more experimental with different elements from both.
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