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Owlboy
Jan 17, 2017 22:45:34 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Jan 17, 2017 22:45:34 GMT -5
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Owlboy
Jan 18, 2017 7:18:31 GMT -5
Post by 320x240 on Jan 18, 2017 7:18:31 GMT -5
Very nice pixel-art (and in a more traditional style than most) but it seems that the fully realized world is what set's this apart from most indie efforts.
However, as a fellow Norwegian I have to say that all this 'nine years sacrifice' bullshit is just that. And very Norwegian bullshit at that. It's a bit like saying: 'It's not my best work but it only took two months to make.' It's an excuse for not giving it your best. You are focusing on the effort made rather than the quality produced. If you need nine years to give it your best, do that. If you need nine months, do that. Does it matter how long something takes to make as long as it is good?
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sarge
New Member
Posts: 10
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Owlboy
Jan 19, 2017 17:51:02 GMT -5
Post by sarge on Jan 19, 2017 17:51:02 GMT -5
I have to admit, the game was absolutely polished and beautiful, but the tepid gameplay really didn't do it any favors. It doesn't help that I was coming straight off of Axiom Verge, which had the opposite problem: a confused, incoherent story with some inconsistent artistic design (it felt a little too tile-based) but gameplay to spare.
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Owlboy
Jan 19, 2017 18:05:31 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Jan 19, 2017 18:05:31 GMT -5
I have to admit, the game was absolutely polished and beautiful, but the tepid gameplay really didn't do it any favors. It doesn't help that I was coming straight off of Axiom Verge, which had the opposite problem: a confused, incoherent story with some inconsistent artistic design (it felt a little too tile-based) but gameplay to spare. Honestly, I felt the opposite: I found the gameplay in Owlboy to be exceptionally well-balanced and fun, whereas Axiom Verge felt just... OK. Axiom Verge has too many weapons, most of which aren't really necessary and are basically never used -- and a lot of the ones that are used require precise timing to use well that's more frustrating than it is fun to pull off. Owlboy, on the other hand, is very elegant, offering fewer gameplay options but making full use of all of them. And that's what I like to see in games: I like game design where nothing is wasted. A place for everything, and everything in its place. It's the reason I prefer Super Metroid to Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and similarly, I definitely prefer Owlboy to Axiom Verge by leaps and bounds, both gameplay-wise and story-wise. -Tom
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sarge
New Member
Posts: 10
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Owlboy
Jan 19, 2017 18:12:14 GMT -5
Post by sarge on Jan 19, 2017 18:12:14 GMT -5
Ha, well, I like Symphony over Super Metroid based on replays, but I love 'em both. I don't know why Owlboy didn't really click with me. I'll be honest, I agree that Axiom Verge packed a little too much in without a real justification for them, although I like trying "neat" weapons, even if they aren't overly useful. The Lightning Gun and then the Heat Seeker were my two mid-to-late game choices. I just wish they'd done more with the gameplay. I thought what was there was executed competently, it just didn't feel very exciting to me. Dunno. To put things on a scale, I figure I'd put Owlboy at 7.5/10 and Axiom Verge at 9.0/10, with 5.0 being dead-average. Of course, SotN and Super Metroid are full 10s.
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Owlboy
Jan 19, 2017 20:00:19 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Jan 19, 2017 20:00:19 GMT -5
Yeah, see, for me, Owlboy is approaching a perfect 10. It's at least a 9 or 9.5. It *really* clicked with me, and ranks up there with some of my other indie favorites of all time (La-Mulana, Freedom Planet, Unepic, Shovel Knight). I enjoyed it significantly more than I expected to.
Axiom Verge was a solid 7.5 to 8. Somewhere in that range. I liked it, but I didn't love it -- I'd rank it higher than, say, Aquaria, but lower than each of the aforementioned titles.
-Tom
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sarge
New Member
Posts: 10
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Owlboy
Jan 20, 2017 10:14:12 GMT -5
Post by sarge on Jan 20, 2017 10:14:12 GMT -5
I still haven't finished La-Mulana, and still need to get around to Unepic. But Shovel Knight and Freedom Planet are both spectacular. Definitely two of my favorites. Freedom Planet, in particular, is one that I wasn't really expecting to enjoy so much, considering I've never been a huge Sonic fan. I've run through the game with all three characters. An indie I don't hear talked about much is Rex Rocket. I really, really enjoyed that when I went through it, kind of a Metroid/Mega Man mash-up.
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Owlboy
Jan 20, 2017 12:12:41 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Jan 20, 2017 12:12:41 GMT -5
Ooh. Never even heard of that one. Will have to look into it for sure!
Unepic is really spectacular gameplay-wise, but if you do play it, be warned: the main character is a DICK. Like, he's one of the most unlikable protagonists I've ever encountered in any video game.
The story is actually pretty decent, and comes to a really neat close, but it's also rather immature -- lots of extremely puerile humor and dialogue, quests to cut off a goblin's penis... the works.
But if you can get past all of that, the game itself is just masterfully well-balanced and well-designed. Everything is a challenge, but nothing is frustrating (well, except maybe one boss). It's wonderful.
-Tom
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Owlboy
Jan 20, 2017 14:07:46 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Jan 20, 2017 14:07:46 GMT -5
I haven't beaten Owlboy (I was going to review it but ended up having to finish other projects around the holidays so I assigned to someone else), but the only issue with it, and it's a really minor one, I had was pacing. The "dungeons" seem a little long and I thought it needed some kind of overworld to break things up a little bit. But I really liked the dual analog moving/shooting and it makes the combat stand out from similar games.
I'm also not really sure this game qualifies as a Metroidvania. That term means something different to everyone, but even though it's a side-scrolling platformer and there's an exploration element, it's still fairly linear, even when levels loop back around. You're always guided towards where you need to go (at least, from the sections that I played) as opposed to trying to find it yourself. It's the main reason why the lack of in-game automap isn't really a big deal.
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Owlboy
Jan 20, 2017 14:36:28 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Jan 20, 2017 14:36:28 GMT -5
The game kind of does have an overworld -- Tropos and Strato basically are the "hub" through which the entire rest of the game is connected, and are the areas you'll be returning to throughout the story.
The world does open up a bit as you get farther along, too, and there are a fair number of optional extras you can find through Metroidvania-style exploration near the end of the game (many of which are literally just extra story scenes, which I really appreciated; finding new abilities is all well and good, but finding new cutscenes that help develop NPCs or develop the world are pretty much my favorite things in any game) -- so I would say it qualifies as a Metroidvania, albeit one which is streamlined enough that a map would seem redundant.
Also, you really do need to beat this game -- the endgame is spectacular, with an incredible sense of dread and weight to it, and some absolutely fantastic set pieces. The soundtrack really shines, too, during the final ascent (where the music track called, erm, "The Final Ascent" plays), as it's a really meticulously timed scene which ensures that the music swells at specific moments to enhance the sense that things are getting VERY real. It's one of the best examples of gameplay and soundtrack synchronicity that I've ever encountered in any video game, and left me pretty much in awe. I think that's when I realized just how much I loved the game.
-Tom
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Owlboy
Feb 9, 2017 11:34:50 GMT -5
Post by dskzero on Feb 9, 2017 11:34:50 GMT -5
You know, I *really* wanted to like this game. It was once piece of gaming I wanted to love, and I tried. I spent a lot of time playing, but the gameplay just couldn't click. It was repetitive, even boring at times (the dark parts seemed unnecesarily long), and the bosses, oh my god, the bosses are absolutely dreadful, requiring pixel perfect movements that really irked me. I think I got to the part where you have to infiltrate a pirate base after you get the spider ninja a few weeks ago, then I just turned it off.
It's irritating. The game is beautiful but it really required more gameplay polish. It's also weird how much it looks and feels like a Metroidvania, yet it is not.
Still, playable, and someone else might enjoy it more than I did. I think I am not an sidescroll adventure gamer anymore. I really wanted some La Mulana bosses in there.
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Owlboy
Feb 9, 2017 12:14:21 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Feb 9, 2017 12:14:21 GMT -5
Weird. A friend of mine also complained about the bosses requiring pixel-perfect movements and such, but... I didn't find that to be the case at all. I'm not really that GOOD at platformers, I just like them... and while I found the bosses challenging, I didn't feel like they required pixel-perfect timing or anything like that to beat. If anything, I kind of faked my way through most of them, and was able to beat each one on my fifth or sixth try at most.
Must just be that they don't quite "click" with certain types of gamers, I dunno...
I also find it odd that you say the game needs more polish, since that feels to me like what it has to offer more than anything else. Owlboy may be the single most polished indie game I've ever played -- even more so than La-Mulana, which felt a bit floaty at times and had a lot of gameplay systems that felt poorly realized (like combining programs on the MobileSuperX, or speaking those damned mantra things at the end of the game). Hell, I'd rank Owlboy up there with Shovel Knight as far as polish level goes. With Owlboy, it felt like every part of the game belonged. Nothing was extraneous -- there was a place for everything, and everything in its place.
I also think the game very much qualifies as a Metroidvania, especially at the end when you're trying to get all the optional items...
I'm not trying to say you're wrong to feel the way you do about it or anything, of course. I'm just surprised, because I've heard others express similar issues with the game -- quite a few others, in fact -- yet this is one of those rare instances where I just don't even SEE it. Like, usually, even when I love a game, I can understand fan complaints about it, with Freedom Planet being the perfect example -- I think the story's great and the voice-acting is solid, but I totally get why others might not. But with Owlboy, I just can't really comprehend the complaints others have about it. The game is virtually a 10/10 for me -- there's almost nothing it could've done better IMHO (save for tightening up the controls on that rocket flight minigame, but that's a really minor gripe).
It's just strange, as this is something I've rarely encountered before with other games. I guess it goes to show you, there's no such thing as a perfect game, because no matter what you do, there will always be those who like it and those who don't. And I mean, I guess I've been on the other side of this before (I really don't care for Ico or Shadow of the Colossus at all), so I get it. It's just... weird!
-Tom
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Owlboy
Feb 13, 2017 7:23:21 GMT -5
Post by dskzero on Feb 13, 2017 7:23:21 GMT -5
Well, people have different opinions. I am not sure the game qualifies as a Metroidvania. It's more of an action adventure one, there is minimum backtracking, and it's a fairly simple. The game, as you mentioned is brutally polished, it's beautiful, but I think the *gameplay* needed more work. If you liked it, well I'm actually happy for you! I love when these games have an audience. I am actually a bit pissed off I'm not part of it: La Mulana is an example of a game I was dying to try, but I just couldn't, because people were giving it such glowing praises. I finally got a weak week at work... and man, I just can't stop loving it. I was kinda expecting something similar from Owlboy.
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Owlboy
Feb 13, 2017 10:43:09 GMT -5
Post by wyrdwad on Feb 13, 2017 10:43:09 GMT -5
I am not sure the game qualifies as a Metroidvania. It's more of an action adventure one, there is minimum backtracking, and it's a fairly simple. I've always taken Metroidvania to mean two things: (1) The entire world is a series of interconnected areas, as opposed to being divided into rigid stages that can never be revisited once completed. (2) Abilities you learn or items you find along the way are used to access new areas and open up new parts of this world. Owlboy 100% complies with both of these conditions. Backtracking is usually a part of a Metroidvania, but is certainly not a requirement for being one, and simplicity is kind of irrelevant. ...Hell, you don't even necessarily need point 2 to be true in order to be a Metroidvania. Look at Knytt Underground -- that entire game world is accessible right off the bat, with your main character knowing the only two abilities necessary to traverse it virtually from the beginning of the game. Yet it's still almost undeniably a Metroidvania. -Tom
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Owlboy
Feb 14, 2017 6:30:37 GMT -5
Post by dskzero on Feb 14, 2017 6:30:37 GMT -5
Well this would be a bizantine discussion about genres. I still think the backtracking is important in that genre, but hey, maybe it's a Metroidvania lite.
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