|
Post by Discoalucard on May 22, 2017 8:37:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by toei on May 24, 2017 19:26:55 GMT -5
A few mistakes crept in there:
"The designers at Softmachine was probably familiar with it" - should be were
"It which knocks opponents down in one hit" - the word "which" should be deleted
Also, the next-to-last paragraph, which starts with "Should you want", appears twice, except the second version changes "decent" with "nice" (illustrations). I prefer the secon version, guess I edited this one far too quickly.
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 19, 2017 20:40:54 GMT -5
Bought this today because well it was on the shelf of a local store & I love the genre, so yeah. Haven't played it yet, but it should at least be an okay romp from the looks of it.
Anyway, the article is not listed on the index page, and the box spells it Crisisbeat, without a space (not sure if that should be changed though, looks pretty weird).
Also, the second to last paragraph repeats itself twice.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 21, 2017 13:36:49 GMT -5
Bought this today because well it was on the shelf of a local store & I love the genre, so yeah. Haven't played it yet, but it should at least be an okay romp from the looks of it. Anyway, the article is not listed on the index page, and the box spells it Crisisbeat, without a space (not sure if that should be changed though, looks pretty weird). Also, the second to last paragraph repeats itself twice. If you like it, you might want to try Lucifer Ring, which improves on it quite a bit. It was only released in Japan originally, but you can get it on the PSN. If you don't like it, you might still want to try Lucifer Ring, which improves on it quite a bit. It was only...
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 21, 2017 18:06:55 GMT -5
The change of setting is a serious drawback for me, to be honest, these games are the most fun to me if they have a modern-ish cityscape, either 80s gang violence or cyber punk, as a setting. :/
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 21, 2017 20:39:04 GMT -5
The change of setting is a serious drawback for me, to be honest, these games are the most fun to me if they have a modern-ish cityscape, either 80s gang violence or cyber punk, as a setting. :/ Yeah, I have similar tastes (though Crisis Beat is set on a cruise ship). I wish Crisis had been the better game, if only because it's probably the only Dynamite Deka clone, but it just gets so boring. I sort of enjoyed it on my first playthrough, though, so maybe you will, too.
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 21, 2017 21:04:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I have similar tastes (though Crisis Beat is set on a cruise ship). I wish Crisis had been the better game, if only because it's probably the only Dynamite Deka clone, but it just gets so boring. I sort of enjoyed it on my first playthrough, though, so maybe you will, too. Any other games I should look out for from that era? I know there's also Nekketsu Oyako and Gekido, anything else?
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 21, 2017 21:21:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I have similar tastes (though Crisis Beat is set on a cruise ship). I wish Crisis had been the better game, if only because it's probably the only Dynamite Deka clone, but it just gets so boring. I sort of enjoyed it on my first playthrough, though, so maybe you will, too. Any other games I should look out for from that era? I know there's also Nekketsu Oyako and Gekido, anything else? Nekketsu Oyako is actually pretty decent. There's one character in particular that has a sort of homing jump kick that allows them to bounce from one enemy to the next (think Shinobi 3), which is really fun to use. I don't like Gekido at all, but I know Bobinator here swears by it. I'm guessing you already know and love Die Hard Arcade. There aren't many others for the 32-bit systems, aside from a few garbage licensed games like Fantastic Four. Crows: The Battle Action was a Japan-exclusive Saturn release that's got cool graphics. It's decent in two-player, but the poor pacing makes it a bit of a drag in single-player. Have you ever played Capcom's Battle Circuit? It was the last of their arcade beat-'em-ups, released in 1997. It's really excellent. You can purchase fighting-game style moves with money you pick from defeating enemies, which is a great incentive to get you to play well and not lose a credit. It's really one of Capcom's best, I'd say.
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 21, 2017 21:30:01 GMT -5
Nekketsu Oyaku is like 150$, so that'd be emulation only. Which is a nice enough option to have, but man. Played Battle Circuit many years ago & thought it was okay; much prefered Sengoku 3 and its prequels (the Gaia Whatever games, not Sengoku 1 & 2) over it. I know Sengoku 3 has gotten a huge amount of backlash in the last couple of years, but the setting of the China (?) stage is pretty awesome plus I dig the combos.
I am a huge Capcom fanboy, but safe for Final Fight 3, I always felt their beat 'em ups were KINDA overrated or at least often beat by the competition. Well, AvP has no competition I guess (the Denjin Makai games might be similar; never played them, though... come to think of it, I also never played Cadillacs & Dinosaurs). Is Gourmet Sentai Barayarō really that good? Seems to have a cyberpunk-ish theme to it.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 21, 2017 21:49:42 GMT -5
Nekketsu Oyaku is like 150$, so that'd be emulation only. Which is a nice enough option to have, but man. Played Battle Circuit many years ago & thought it was okay; much prefered Sengoku 3 and its prequels (the Gaia Whatever games, not Sengoku 1 & 2) over it. I know Sengoku 3 has gotten a huge amount of backlash in the last couple of years, but the setting of the China (?) stage is pretty awesome plus I dig the combos. I am a huge Capcom fanboy, but safe for Final Fight 3, I always felt their beat 'em ups were KINDA overrated or at least often beat by the competition. Well, AvP has no competition I guess (the Denjin Makai games might be similar; never played them, though... come to think of it, I also never played Cadillacs & Dinosaurs). Is Gourmet Sentai Barayarō really that good? Seems to have a cyberpunk-ish theme to it. Gourmet Sentai is crap. Like, bottom of the barrel. Who said it was good? As the title implies, the heroes are some sort of foodie rangers, so I wouldn't take the cyberpunk aspect too seriously. Anyway, emulate it if you're curious, but don't spend money on it unless it turns out you like it somehow. And yeah, definitely don't spend 150$ for Nekketsu Oyakoh either, it's just pretty nice, not earth-shattering. As for Capcom beat-'em-ups being overrated... even The Punisher? I'd argue it's one of the best beat'-em-ups ever made, period. There's just so many weapons everywhere, so much carnage. The guns, swords, bats, the grenades... The key to Capcom's arcade BEUs is their intensity; you're never fighting walking punching bags. But from the sound of it, it seems you like expansive combos a lot and don't mind very long levels, so it might just be that we're not looking for the same things in those games. Personally I can't stand Sengoku 3 or that Gaia game, they just drag on and on and on.
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 21, 2017 22:15:51 GMT -5
I always felt that the Konami games had tons of, as you said, walking punching bags, whereas the Technos games had the most threatening individual foes. Capcom's stuff was all about crowd control (with huge screen sweeping specials) and the Streets Of Rage games were somewhere between Konami and Technos. So, I don't really feel that Capcom's stuff was all about dangerous individual enemies, at least compared to Technos' games, or even SoR?
The thing I enjoy most about the games is flow (which Capcom usually achieved via seamless crowd control) and pacing. The Double Dragon games had a very methodological feel to them, almost like a versus fighter (with footsies and all), whereas Konami's stuff was all about combos and keeping on pounding; SoR, again, was in the middle of it all. I don't mind longer levels, but I need some change of scenery during them (Sengoku 3 definitely was pushing it); not a fan of stuff like The Combatribes; the feeling of advancing in the stage bit by bit is part of the fun for me. Anyway, I gotta feel like I'm doing cool stuff, so lots of options for moves (also resulting in varied combos) contributes to this. Playing around with the game, not just getting to the exit.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 22, 2017 13:56:10 GMT -5
Your assessment of each developer's approach is basically on point, except I'd add that Konami has a tendency to go for cheap bosses. They've made a few great beat-'em-ups nonetheless. My favorite school of beat-'em-ups is Technos, but the intensity in Capcom's games comes from the crowd control; you must remain very active to avoid being overwhelmed in the original arcade games, especially in single-player. That's what makes the weapons in The Punisher so fun to use. I also favor quick pacing. My favorite games are those that have you moving from scene to scene, like Die Hard Arcade, rather that walk forever through a long, uneventful stage. I don't need a very large variety of moves if the important ones are there, especially when they end up having no particular use, and I hate games like Sengoku 3 because every enemy has so much health that you're forced to pull the same 20-hit combo every time instead of just punch-punch-kick. I prefer a large variety of satisfyingly brutal weapons. That feeling of running to get to the machine gun before the bastards swarm you or the boss gets back up. The idea that the genre is useless in single-player is a myth. It's great if you can play with someone who's equally into it (and pointless if your friend hates it), but in solo, there's more of a challenge.
|
|
|
Post by alphex on Sept 22, 2017 22:00:28 GMT -5
I have to say I really love the aspect of camaraderie in multiplayer; you constantly try to help each other out and, if you're skilled enough (and "synchronized" in playstyles), the second player even contributes to the overall flow and helps to keep the action non-stop. I remember one moment in the 2003 TMNT game by Konami when me and my friend were on opposite sides of the screen and took care of the respective onslaught; battered one group of enemies towards the middle and by doing this, ended up back to back in the middle of the screen. That was a total badass moment, and we both looked at each other and went "hell yeah!". That level of holding your own ground but also being a teamplayer is really unique to the genre and so much fun.
That being said, when playing solo, I much prefer the Double Dragon games since they already play a bit slower. In multiplayer, especially with more than three players, Konami is where it's at for me, but I agree, the bosses are usually super cheap. They definitely had the most shallow overall system as well. With two players, SOR is my fav. Which leaves Capcom's stuff somewhere in the middle - it's all quality, and I probably really should replay The Punisher (which seems to be your favorite?), but crowd control takes quite a bit more skill than what the Konami games demand, so it's harder to find friends who will get into the games' flow.
So, uhm, what are the ultimate genre games for you then? I personally would say SOR Remake for the two player "constant flow" style; Vendetta for absolute multiplayer mayhem; Return of DD for multi player methodology; DD Advance for single player methodology; and actually, my fav Capcom BEU is Final Fight 3 (although AvP is the objectively better game) - I love the setting, multiple pathways & quick change of scenery. Golden Axe: Return of Death Adder is also very good, but pretty much a less accessible Golden Axe. As for 3D stuff, the 2003 TMNT games by Konami are the most fast paced IMO.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Sept 28, 2017 15:09:52 GMT -5
So, uhm, what are the ultimate genre games for you then? I personally would say SOR Remake for the two player "constant flow" style; Vendetta for absolute multiplayer mayhem; Return of DD for multi player methodology; DD Advance for single player methodology; and actually, my fav Capcom BEU is Final Fight 3 (although AvP is the objectively better game) - I love the setting, multiple pathways & quick change of scenery. Golden Axe: Return of Death Adder is also very good, but pretty much a less accessible Golden Axe. As for 3D stuff, the 2003 TMNT games by Konami are the most fast paced IMO. Die Hard Arcade is the ultimate, Dynamite Cop is pretty great but not quite as tight. Another great 3D beat-'em-up is the Hokuto no Ken game for the Japanese PSX, developed by Natsume, however it's single-player, and you have to enjoy the series as there are very long cutscenes and they aren't skippable the first time around. This one has somewhat more developed gameplay, it's almost like a simplified free-movement 3D fighter during boss fights, and for once the QTEs (which are used for finishing moves) don't bother me at all. Going back to traditional 2D beat-'em-up, I'd say The Punisher for Capcom, with a special mention to Captain Commando because it's the first where you can turn up or down while running, which allows you to maneouver around bosses and hit them in the back with a quick characters (like the ninja), plus the levels are short, so I never get bored. For Konami, Vendetta for the variety and brutality of weapons (the shotgun and spiked bats are great), as well as allowing you to pounce on downed enemies. Turtles in Time is great, though I actually prefer it on SNES despite the graphical downgrades because hitting enemies feels "chunkier". And Metamorphic Force is very well-paced too. Love stomping enemies with the Bull. For Sega, the entire Streets of Rage trilogy. I believe the first is very underrated - it almost feels more like a Technos game, with the somewhat harder difficulty and higher aggressivity of the enemies, and the music and level design are great. Everyone knows the second game is great, but I've played so much since it came out that it doesn't really do anything for me anymore. And the 3rd has the most evolved gameplay - the upwards and backwards roll is very underrated as an evasive move. My only real problem with it is that awful, interminable level with the rails. And I love Technos' games, but it's hard to pick one as that much better than all the rest. I like the PC-Engine CD version of Double Dragon 2 a lot, Kunio-tachi no Banka on the SFC and the SNES port of Combatribes (cause it's impossible not to get constantly overwhelmed in the arcade version).
|
|
|
Post by Bumpyroad on Sept 28, 2017 15:31:04 GMT -5
For Sega, the entire Streets of Rage trilogy. I believe the first is very underrated - it almost feels more like a Technos game, with the somewhat harder difficulty and higher aggressivity of the enemies, and the music and level design are great. Everyone knows the second game is great, but I've played so much since it came out that it doesn't really do anything for me anymore. And the 3rd has the most evolved gameplay - the upwards and backwards roll is very underrated as an evasive move. I'm glad, they gave Sammy a 'well thought' dash move in the 2nd game and those 'creative enough' ideas got carried into the 3rd game.
|
|