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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 12:34:13 GMT -5
Not complaining about it all, just saying that grinding is sometimes required in RPGs. It's honestly a good way to catch up on tv shows.
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Post by Snake on Jan 10, 2018 12:39:23 GMT -5
Earthbound always struck me as being very balanced. At least for me, as long as you took your time to explore the maps and various parts of the towns, you would always be strong enough to proceed without any grinding. Giygas doesn't even need grinding. Just survive to the end.
Mother 3 by contrast, I stuck to grinding a few times 'cause I could never get the rhythm attack feature down. I had to level-up a bit to compensate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 12:49:13 GMT -5
I have to agree with nerdybat about the department store feeling extraordinarily unfair in Earthbound. I'm sure they meant for it to be that way, but that doesn't make it any more pleasant to endure. The final approach to Giygas also felt like a real slog, though one could maybe argue that the section actually serves as the true final boss.
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Post by kaoru on Jan 10, 2018 12:52:02 GMT -5
Honestly, Earthbound had a couple of sections where I'd scroll the enemies off and on the screen until there were less/easier randos.
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Post by JoeQ on Jan 10, 2018 13:16:17 GMT -5
Always go for 100% completion (or 200.8%). How else could you quantify how much fun you're having?! Also makes you automatically win any arguments with casuals
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Post by Feynman on Jan 10, 2018 13:26:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with nerdybat about the department store feeling extraordinarily unfair in Earthbound. I'm sure they meant for it to be that way, but that doesn't make it any more pleasant to endure. The final approach to Giygas also felt like a real slog, though one could maybe argue that the section actually serves as the true final boss. The department store section is sort of a gimmick level. The walk from the bottom to the top of the building is very short with only a small handful of encounters, so you can go crazy with your most powerful Psi attacks. Once you reach the end, Jeff's Big Bottle Rockets + Ness using Psi will take out the boss in just one or two turns. The idea is to blitz everything down super quick to minimize total damage taken... if you try to fight conservatively that area becomes considerably more difficult.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 13:34:07 GMT -5
Yeah, but you need to know to have that stuff ready beforehand. My guess would be that the designers are counting on you not being prepared for it, which is pretty mean.
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Post by X-pert74 on Jan 10, 2018 13:35:01 GMT -5
It's been awhile, but I really do not remember the Department Store in EarthBound being that tough. Not having a healer sucks of course, but ehh. I usually forget that area exists until I get reminded of it. For me, EarthBound started off grindy, especially because you only have Ness in the beginning, but the difficulty becomes more reasonable as you gain more members in your party.
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Post by Feynman on Jan 10, 2018 14:20:05 GMT -5
Yeah, but you need to know to have that stuff ready beforehand. My guess would be that the designers are counting on you not being prepared for it, which is pretty mean. I think the developers were assuming the opposite actually... that players WOULD be prepared, so it wouldn't be too hard. Jeff's defining feature is his combat items, and his rockets are some of the strongest attacks in the game, so it's in the player's best interests to keep a stock of them on hand at all times. A lot of it comes down to how players approach jRPGs, and that can vary a lot. Dragon Quest and the games that use it as a template (of which Earthbound is very much included) make resource management a major gameplay element. Players are expected to spend and use consumable items frequently, so keeping yourself stocked up is a given if you're familiar with that style of game. Since Dragon Quest was ultra popular in Japan, the developers likely made the reasonable assumption that their users would be maintaining an inventory of consumables. Most western players learned how to play jRPGs with the Final Fantasy series, however, specifically the ones on the SNES or later. Those games disregard consumable resources as something important. In those games you never really need items, so players just sort of hoard them and never use them. After FF7 made jRPGs a big deal in the west and loads of imitators appeared, this ended up becoming the dominant style of jRPG design over time, but it's taught players some habits that will bite them in the ass if they try to apply them to classic Dragon Quest type jRPGs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 14:25:32 GMT -5
Maybe that's the issue, then. Inventory is really limited in Earthbound (as is the case with DQ), so I didn't place a priority on keeping Jeff fully stocked with rockets.
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Post by X-pert74 on Jan 10, 2018 15:06:27 GMT -5
Limited inventory stinks, but those bottle rockets are incredible. I remember generally trying to keep a few on me at any given time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:30:13 GMT -5
The more you know...That should definitely help with a replay, thanks for the tip!
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Jan 10, 2018 16:07:38 GMT -5
I think you visit the dept. store before it becomes evil right? If I am remembering that correctly, it should kind of clue you in on the short size of it. IIRC, I had Paula hold the Franklin Badge, which was a big mistake. But I do remember liking that part of the game. nerdybat - Regarding Earthbound, there's always healing items and status-enhancing spells (status spells are totally key to Dragon Quest, btw) I don't remember using a lot of status spells in Earthbound, but they're essential in DQI indeed. That game actually had a pretty good balance of options in battle. It's too bad they're way less useful in DQII and III. I pretty much only used them on bosses and such in DQII from what I remember.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:12:08 GMT -5
The size of the department store isn't really an issue. It's trying to survive the outleveled enemies without a healer. As for spells in DQII, Sleep seems to work well on ogres, but feels very random with most other types of enemies.
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Post by zerker on Jan 10, 2018 17:00:44 GMT -5
So I have two questions I wanted to get some feedback on: - Can we move back the 'start date' requirement for rollover games to any time in December as long as the 50% requirement is still met? I'm currently playing through Hollow Knight and Metal Gear (MSX), and think I'm less than 50% in both, but I started around Dec 3rd. For reference, I took screenshots/photos of my game times in each before I resumed them, which should serve for proof of the 50% requirement when I do finish them:
- What should be the requirement for economic sims and 4X games? There are some obvious cases, such as:
Civilization/Master of Orion: Finishing a full run of the game (any settings) Transport Tycoon (NOT Deluxe): Reaching the year 2050 and ending a scenario Roller Coaster Tycoon: Finishing all scenarios.
And some less obvious examples that we can probably come up with something easily: Sim City 2000: Building the largest archology type Sim City: Reaching a population threshold?
But then things get more complicated with the two games I'm either playing or planning on playing: Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon: The game is generally open-ended, where you run your railroad as well as you can until a given end date. However, there are four land masses you can choose to play on, which have different cities, industries and train types. So the length might align more with the Civ criteria, but the scenario nature might align more with the Roller Coaster Tycoon criteria.
Transport Tycoon Deluxe: The game now has four scenario types instead of one, with different industry rules in each. Would it then be necessary to "finish" each scenario type?
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