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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 15, 2018 0:40:10 GMT -5
You're still making the same kind of generalizing arguments, presented as a more mature way of looking at things that one would have to reflect on the subject to arrive at. I gotta ask, is this some sort of crusade you're on where you'll keep making this thread until the common consensus changes for that song? Are there more threads? Will the baka gaijin ever learn to appreciate the superior nippon culture? I am making fun but also find this kind of fascinating. I mean, SotN could have told a more serious story with some emotional and intellectual depth to it and that would've been cool, but it clearly didn't (and that's also cool). I AM THE WIND! I AM THE SUN! YOU WILL ALL BOW TO ME! Well that and it helps that HG101 had never heard this discussion before, and I honestly didn't expect there to be all that many Digitpress users here. New location with new faces equals fresh slate. And this really is a subject I keep running into, so I don't see a reason why I should only ever get one shot at this topic (one shot per forum I'm fine with though). It's not really "glorious nippon" so much as I think people should try to understand intent before just declaring something is pointless or doesn't fit. It's exactly the same as when people say Tom Bombadil doesn't fit Lord of the Rings--its wrong and I can prove it and I will. (Honestly these days I tend to hate Japan but that's a discussion for another time). ..... Regarding the whole "bombable walls in Zelda" thing.... I don't see that as an obtuse game design choice, for one reason: The game actually does let you know they may exist and conditions you from early on to look for them. There's also that there's relatively consistent rules for said bombable walls (in dungeons they're always in the center section of a wall, outdoors they're always on walls that face towards the bottom of the screen). It takes little time to latch onto and once you do its no problem at all. Some Zelda *clones* I've sometimes had a problem with them being a little too obtuse, where the bombable joints could be anywhere on any wall with no definite play-conditioned pattern, and those can be bull. One game that could've been too obtuse, but wasn't, was Golvellius for the Sega Master System. It's one of those games that breaks the rules about where a secret could be, but replaces it with another one: absolutely every screen has a secret, so if you haven't found one on this screen yet, there's something you haven't done (and to my memory all the secrets can be found the first time you explore a screen). So it winds up working out. Now having to press against those trees in Hydlide to find a fairy... THAT was bull. Especially since all the other trees *kill you* so if anything the play conditioning makes you want to avoid the trees. Ultimately, it all comes down to play conditioning and the game giving you certain expectations and then working within the framework it itself sets up. On a personal note this is something that bothers me about a lot of RPGs and Strategy games. I remember Star Ocean on PSP (the first one) having these skills you could set each character to learn over time (stuff like performing or pickpocketing or cooking) but the game doesn't properly convey what their benefit or purpose is, Ogre Battle is currently giving me a feeling that I have to literally scour every map with ground-based units to find every buried item or hidden temple which doesn't strike me as good design (some of them are hinted at, but sometimes they're just in random places) and System Shock 2 felt like it punished any decision I made thus everything I did was wrong, which was NOT an enjoyable experience. I do agree that Zelda's setup probably wouldn't work in a modern 3D game because, like a person said, there's just too much to check and there's no way any play conditioning could be consistent across the board. But when A Link to the Past (which was still 2D) used wall cracks it felt like the game was calling me an idiot incapable of finding things on my own.
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Post by akumajobelmont on Jan 15, 2018 2:31:12 GMT -5
So do I. I love 'I Am The Wind'
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 15, 2018 8:02:23 GMT -5
Fair enough. Just wanted to get a response this time and found it funny how similar the posts were despite a fairly long time passing and some of the replies. Would really like to know what the devs were thinking putting it in there now. Someone talked about them maybe just wanting to feature a pop single and that seems reasonable, it was still kind of a novelty to do that in a game at that point. Kinda like with Eyes on Me from FF8, except that one at least fits pretty well thematically (lyrics don't really make me think "yeah, that's Squall and Rinoa") without any creative interpretations. Maybe an anime thing also but don't think they'd make sure it was in proper english if it was just that.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 15, 2018 10:36:14 GMT -5
Actually, that's a really good point. FF8 came out before Symphony of the Night, right? Because I'm betting that was a huge influence indeed. As much as I personally despise FF8, the game was a trendsetter like every Final Fantasy before it -- I mean, just consider how many other RPGs had to have a minigame where you played cards with people after FF8! And Eyes On Me was decidedly a Very Big Deal(tm) back then, so it was extremely trendy for other games to feature a heartfelt pop song as their main theme for quite some time afterward. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the impetus behind Konami hurriedly outsourcing I Am the Wind, in an attempt to be "hip" and "with it" like Square. That might be part of why I didn't like it back then, too: when other games featured arbitrary card games, I always found it kind of disingenuous, as if they were just ripping off the competition. Similarly, when a game had a sappy pop song as its main theme back then, I recall hearing it and thinking to myself, "Ugh, everybody just wants to have their own Eyes On Me, don't they?" EDIT: Well... no, Symphony of the Night came out QUITE A BIT before Final Fantasy VIII. So there goes that theory! But that might still explain my personal dislike toward I Am the Wind, since I definitely didn't play Symphony of the Night until after FF8, and my assumption back in the day was always that SotN came out afterward, so I probably perceived I Am the Wind as an Eyes On Me wannabe song, even if the reality could arguably be the reverse... -Tom
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Post by Bumpyroad on Jan 15, 2018 11:25:33 GMT -5
Well... no, Symphony of the Night came out QUITE A BIT before Final Fantasy VIII. So there goes that theory! But that might still explain my personal dislike toward I Am the Wind, since I definitely didn't play Symphony of the Night until after FF8, and my assumption back in the day was always that SotN came out afterward, so I probably perceived I Am the Wind as an Eyes On Me wannabe song, even if the reality could arguably be the reverse... What do you think about "The Best is Yet to Come " from MGS released in '98? I first played MGS and then SOTN and honestly don't remember much about "I Am The Wind" whereas MGS one always triggers the string of nostalgia. I haven't heard "Eyes On Me" at all.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 15, 2018 12:05:00 GMT -5
Never heard The Best is Yet to Come. But then, I also never played MGS! It's on the to-do list. -Tom
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 16:16:32 GMT -5
Re: I Am the Wind - I have to admit the first time I finished the game I found it a bit odd (I was like, 15 or something) yet it didn't really bother me all that much - I'd heard way more awful music in games at that stage that was a lot more inappropriate. I was actually more shocked when I finished the Xbox port that they had removed the song. I guess there were rights issues with the vocalist or the song writer (Rika Muranka if I am right). I'll not knock the writer though, she also (if memory recalls) wrote "The Best is Yet to Come" from MGS1 and "Snake Eater" from MGS3 and I love both of those for different reasons. Could be wrong here, but I thought it was just that Cynthia Harrell sang both "I Am the Wind" and "Snake Eater".
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Post by Snake on Jan 15, 2018 18:34:36 GMT -5
Re: I Am the Wind - I have to admit the first time I finished the game I found it a bit odd (I was like, 15 or something) yet it didn't really bother me all that much - I'd heard way more awful music in games at that stage that was a lot more inappropriate. I was actually more shocked when I finished the Xbox port that they had removed the song. I guess there were rights issues with the vocalist or the song writer (Rika Muranka if I am right). I'll not knock the writer though, she also (if memory recalls) wrote "The Best is Yet to Come" from MGS1 and "Snake Eater" from MGS3 and I love both of those for different reasons. Could be wrong here, but I thought it was just that Cynthia Harrell sang both "I Am the Wind" and "Snake Eater". Correct, Cynthia Harrell is the same vocalist. Random question: Anyone ever come across the song "Nocturne" in the game? When does it ever cue? I remember it as track 10 on the original soundtrack CD, but totally lost when does it ever come up? Unused track?
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 15, 2018 18:46:58 GMT -5
Comments on the vid: "Exclusive to the Saturn version, when Alucard falls asleep,. the green fairy start singing." "idk if you need it now but this song play if sit on a chair for some time"
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Post by Snake on Jan 15, 2018 19:55:52 GMT -5
Comments on the vid: "Exclusive to the Saturn version, when Alucard falls asleep,. the green fairy start singing." "idk if you need it now but this song play if sit on a chair for some time" Hmm... maybe I'll have to replay the Saturn version sometime and try it out. Now I'll have to look up how he falls asleep. Does he fall asleep on the chair? Like the one in the chapel confession room?
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 15, 2018 20:17:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 20:24:31 GMT -5
Wow, never knew that! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Snake on Jan 15, 2018 21:15:57 GMT -5
Thanks for finding that vid! That was such a nagging mystery for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 4:34:18 GMT -5
Could be wrong here, but I thought it was just that Cynthia Harrell sang both "I Am the Wind" and "Snake Eater". Correct, Cynthia Harrell is the same vocalist. I know wikipedia is never too reliable but apparently it isn’t the same vocalist: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rika_MuranakaCynthia just done I Am The Wind’s vocals. Both tracks I cited had their music written by Rika Muranaka - sorry I got the nane wrong previously. Forgot she also wrote a song for Silent Hill! Konami’s glory days eh? :-(
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Post by Bumpyroad on Jan 16, 2018 5:00:41 GMT -5
Cynthia Harrell is credited at 6.07 mark:
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