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Post by windfisch on Jan 23, 2019 12:04:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Crusader of Centy is much more than just some Zelda clone. It's quite good. I remember the gameplay being much more "physical" than Zelda's, with platforming and fast-paced bits that sort of resemble obstacles courses. And Light Crusader was always good, too. I actually played it after Diablo, renting it at random while a friend was staying over, and we were convinced the game was basically Diablo's ancestor. Lagoon on SNES is solid. It does have a short weapon, but it's not that hard to get used to. Crusader of Centy/Soleil is pretty great. I've never read anything particularly negative about it, but merely calling it a Zelda-clone is not really accurate in terms of gameplay, which indeed is much more action-heavy and momentum-based. Progression is also a bit more linear and the quirky yet sometimes philosophical story-elements actually reminded me a bit of Quintet's Soulblazer (possibly Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma, too).
Funny how you made that Light Crusader - Diablo connection, because I also think there is a slight resemblance (even though gameplay is vastly different). The reason for that must be the mooing cows in both games .
I've only tried Lagoon briefly. But it was not just the short weapon range that put me off (though that was a big part of it), it was also the combination of a large player sprite and an awkward camera that just starts scrolling when the player is at the edge of the screen, preventing one from seeing far ahead.
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Post by dsparil on Jan 23, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
The PS2 version of Heroes apparently has technical issues, and I suspect that most people ended up playing that version especially if it got picked up used. I didn't have any issues with it personally (played it on Windows) and I liked how some of the Knuckles Chaotix characters came back.
Having recently replayed Sonic 3D Blast, and the Genesis version for the first time, the improved graphics and sound in the Saturn/PC version does add a whole lot. The loss of the CD music was a big loss in particular since the Genesis music is so-so.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 23, 2019 12:16:31 GMT -5
Oh! I've got one more for this thread that's a doozy, I think: Bubsy. I really, genuinely enjoyed the first Bubsy game -- and since I played it on SNES, I always felt like it was the "Sonic the Hedgehog of the SNES" (not knowing at the time that it was also available on Genesis), considering it to be equally as good as Sonic 1 back then. These days, I'd say no, it's not anywhere near as good as Sonic 1 -- but I still think it's a pretty great game overall. You do have to be careful not to go all THAT fast much of the time, lest you run into enemies and die... but then, that was true of Sonic 1 as well (though the existence of rings made it less of a threat in Sonic, admittedly). And I think the level designs in Bubsy are much better in a lot of ways, generally consisting of larger areas with more secrets. I remember having an absolute blast finding hidden underground treasure rooms, secret caves, etc. I never played Bubsy 2 or the Jaguar game, however, with the only other Bubsy game I DID play being... Bubsy 3D. Which I also think isn't AS bad as people make it out to be... but it definitely doesn't qualify as a "game that gets dissed and I don't know why," as it's VERY CLEAR why that one gets dissed. Bubsy 1, though, is just a good game with a few small design missteps that prevent it from being a GREAT game. But absolutely none of its design missteps are so bad that I feel they justify the hate the game gets on a regular basis. It is by no means one of the worst games of its kind, nor is it even strictly a bad game at all -- it's just a game that didn't quite live up to all of its potential, but made a noble enough effort and produced a decent enough result. -Tom
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Post by windfisch on Jan 23, 2019 13:29:53 GMT -5
Oh! I've got one more for this thread that's a doozy, I think: Bubsy. I really, genuinely enjoyed the first Bubsy game -- and since I played it on SNES, I always felt like it was the "Sonic the Hedgehog of the SNES" (not knowing at the time that it was also available on Genesis), considering it to be equally as good as Sonic 1 back then. These days, I'd say no, it's not anywhere near as good as Sonic 1 -- but I still think it's a pretty great game overall. You do have to be careful not to go all THAT fast much of the time, lest you run into enemies and die... but then, that was true of Sonic 1 as well (though the existence of rings made it less of a threat in Sonic, admittedly). And I think the level designs in Bubsy are much better in a lot of ways, generally consisting of larger areas with more secrets. I remember having an absolute blast finding hidden underground treasure rooms, secret caves, etc. Bubsy 1, though, is just a good game with a few small design missteps that prevent it from being a GREAT game. But absolutely none of its design missteps are so bad that I feel they justify the hate the game gets on a regular basis. It is by no means one of the worst games of its kind, nor is it even strictly a bad game at all -- it's just a game that didn't quite live up to all of its potential, but made a noble enough effort and produced a decent enough result. -Tom Give Bubsy replenishable hitpoints and remove some of the more ridiculous insta-kill moments like fall-damage - then I'd agree on it being a good game. And I sincerely hope that some day someone will make a romhack like that.
As it is I find it interesting and I admire the obvious passion that went into making it. But ultimately it's a bit too unpolished, sadly. It certainly is not terrible, though.
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Post by kingmike on Jan 23, 2019 19:56:01 GMT -5
In the case of Bubsy, I avoided fall damage by nearly always holding the glide button while dropping. Avoids fall damage and slows his descent so you can see where he's going (well, somewhat better) Seems like no reason not to. Giving Bubsy nine lives in place of hitpoints (which he did have in Bubsy 2, one of the things that on paper would make Bubsy a technically superior sequel but it just didn't have the same feel to me as the original) was the gimmick. Strange that although the first game has passwords for every level (in the Japanese version the passwords were actually derived from pi ), it only tells you what they are for the first stage of each world (that is it gives a password after each boss defeated).
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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 24, 2019 11:11:39 GMT -5
I'll confess... as a kid I was actually a huge Bubsy fanboy. In fact him and Aero the Acrobat were two of my favorite video game mascots! I'm not sure if Aero deserves mention, because while the character is unknown, I've never heard of him getting particularly dissed. You dodged a bullet never playing Bubsy II by the way. It has its decent aspects but even as a kid I found it far more boring than the first place. .... People diss racing games? Well, they're wrong. Though I have noticed there being occasional nerd-bias against whole genres. I myself once had a period where I absolutely would not touch sports games. Then I discovered several I liked.
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Post by windfisch on Jan 24, 2019 11:19:17 GMT -5
In the case of Bubsy, I avoided fall damage by nearly always holding the glide button while dropping. Avoids fall damage and slows his descent so you can see where he's going (well, somewhat better) Seems like no reason not to. Giving Bubsy nine lives in place of hitpoints (which he did have in Bubsy 2, one of the things that on paper would make Bubsy a technically superior sequel but it just didn't have the same feel to me as the original) was the gimmick. Strange that although the first game has passwords for every level (in the Japanese version the passwords were actually derived from pi ), it only tells you what they are for the first stage of each world (that is it gives a password after each boss defeated). Yeah, Bubsy 2 may have hitpoints but it suffers from worse controls and worse level design - it's not enjoyable at all.
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Post by kingmike on Jan 24, 2019 11:40:58 GMT -5
I think even when released Aero was ranked up there with Awesome Possum in unnecessary mascots. Although I thought Aero's game was pretty good if incredibly difficult. And it definitely follows Battletoads' school of game design with a lot of "ride" stages which divert from its primary genre (I think in fact, in the Woods world, only one of its stages was even a platformer?) One thing that was probably offputting about Aero was that his primary attack was pretty unusual and took a bit of practice? (the drill attack, where you have jump and then push jump+towards the enemy again)
I do remember the first advertisement for Aero the Acrobat was a two-page wall of text with some screenshots on top of it. They even knew most people weren't going to read it that they right in the middle they just stuck in details for a giveaway for some free copies of the game. Though the same ad was later amended to remove the offer.
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Post by edmonddantes on Jan 24, 2019 12:04:57 GMT -5
I remember that two-page ad... and I think I actually read it.
I remember a Gamefaqs review pointing out something I never realized about Aero: "When you think about it, its about a bat-man fighting an evil clown..."
Yeah, the drill attack took some practice. One of the improvements Aero 2 made was giving you a straight-down version of the attack, because the default one had an issue that sometimes you zooped right into an instant death... which, the original game had a lot of instadeaths despite you having an energy bar, and a lot of beginner's traps where you have to tread carefully or else be killed.
Nowadays I identify games like Aero and Bubsy as games where the primary strategy is "get every 1-up you can in the early levels and hope they last the entire game." I use the same strategy in games like Turrican (which may have been the game which started that kind of design as I don't know if a deathless play is possible without being a mad expert).
... Speaking of Aero 2, its a weird case for me, because in some ways its an improvement over the original, but at the same time it feels kinda duller. It doesnt help that it tries to have a storyline, but the story is all over the place and just introduces new crap out of nowhere and I don't even really know what's happening. There was also a spinoff called Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel (Zero was a recurring bad guy in Aero's games--a henchman to the afformentined evil clown) which I never played, and a lot of people don't even know its connected to the Aero series. I need to try that one soon.
.... Also you guys mentioned a lot I feel bad for not mentioning myself, namely Lagoon and Super Hydlide. The recent Angry Nerd review of Super Hydlide kinda pissed me off.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 24, 2019 12:51:02 GMT -5
Yeah, that was a pretty poor review. The ProJared review of Super Hydlide was much better -- which is odd to say, since ProJared reviews are generally a lot harsher than modern-day AVGN reviews. But that was definitely an exception.
-Tom
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Post by toei on Jan 24, 2019 13:49:18 GMT -5
I liked James Rolfe and all, but when I saw he had released a AVGN video about the Hydlide games I knew he was going to be lazy and just shit on them all. Super Hydlide doesn't give a good first impression; it's really damn ugly. But if you put in the effort, you'll discover a really good game. Even Virtual Hydlide isn't that bad.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Jan 24, 2019 22:43:48 GMT -5
Bubsy 2 was just godawful but as a kid I loved Bubsy 1. Replaying it as an adult I don't have the patience for it though.
Same with Awesome Possum, btw. Decent enough game as a kid.
Sonic Adventure was legit a good game, though the DX port had some issues.
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Post by kingmike on Jan 25, 2019 1:43:36 GMT -5
One game I enjoyed renting as a kid but couldn't play for more than a few minutes as an adult was Taz-Mania SNES. I guess I found it less amusing when Taz kept running into blind traffic when I realized that slows down the pace quite a bit. I realize that in many driving games, where you can crash as much as you want but you have limited time, slow animations were perhaps a penalty for bad play. But I don't know if that would necessarily count in this game's case as Taz only looks like a "driving" game but actually isn't (I have seen videos of people confused since the goal isn't actually that clear but it is only to eat a certain amount of the yellow "kiwi" birds to finish a level.)
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 25, 2019 7:46:39 GMT -5
Zero is pretty solid. Good controls and great graphics.
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Post by shelverton on Jan 25, 2019 10:59:55 GMT -5
I liked Bubsy 1 too, but I definitely think the first world is all I need to play. It’s like they put all effort in the first few levels, and then it turns into a much less polished and more random experience imo. Still nowhere near as bad as Bubsy 2 though, which seems to build upon the madness, ignoring anything reasonably promising or solid Bubsy 1 had going for it. It’s practically unplayable for me.
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