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Post by kingmike on Jan 29, 2019 18:44:10 GMT -5
I think Evermore had only a couple ingredients in limited supply (Dry Ice? I believe it was Call Up that basically became an unusable formula. But if you wanted to grind formulas in Evermore, it will pay off to keep track of where the ingredient sellers are and their prices. Even for the same ingredient, prices vary between sellers.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 30, 2019 0:53:19 GMT -5
Luckily there's a hack that fixes that for Evermore.
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Post by Owlman on Jan 30, 2019 8:28:53 GMT -5
To this day, I still don't understand what people have against Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Friday the 13th on the NES. It's the AVGN effect. People "know" that these games are bad, even without having ever played them. It's the same for Shaq-Fu. Is Shaq-Fu good? No, not really. However, the sole reason it regularly makes worst games lists is because its reputation is self-perpetuating.
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Post by windfisch on Jan 30, 2019 9:47:53 GMT -5
To this day, I still don't understand what people have against Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Friday the 13th on the NES. It's the AVGN effect. People "know" that these games are bad, even without having ever played them. It's the same for Shaq-Fu. Is Shaq-Fu good? No, not really. However, the sole reason it regularly makes worst games lists is because its reputation is self-perpetuating. Which brings me to the first two CDi Zelda games. Since I haven't played them myself, let's talk about the most mocked and hated aspect about them: the cutscenes.
(dramatic pause)
Thing is: I like them quite a bit. They are cheesy, sure, but that's part of the fun (also: " cheesy" was pretty much the norm for cutscenes in games back then). And what most people don't seem to realize is that there was some actual skill involved in making them: Characters are in constant motion, they zoom and rotate all the time - that's not easy to do when animating frame by frame. One might call this "overanimated", timing is somewhat off and character models are rather inconsistent - so it's hardly Disney-quality. But at the same time these things give it a weirdly hypnotic quality rarely seen in other games. Amazingly there are also no visible compression artifacts that could distract from all the beautiful craziness. Those clips looks more alive and have more personality than many stiffly animated 3D-cutscenes of the time.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jan 30, 2019 12:03:14 GMT -5
100% agreed. I've always wanted to play the CDi Zelda games -- they look stiff and clunky, but interesting. And I'm OK with stiff and clunky if the game beneath it all is ambitious enough, which the Zelda CDi games look like they just may be.
I doubt they'd make the list of "games that get dissed and I don't know why," as I'm sure it would be blatantly obvious why they get dissed were I to play them. But I could see them making the list of "bad/clunky games I rather enjoy," alongside the likes of Super Pitfall.
-Tom
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Post by windfisch on Jan 30, 2019 14:04:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I highly doubt these are particularly fun to play - just looking at gameplay videos reveals some serious flaws, e.g.: the graphics seemingly do not always manage to communicate what are foreground or background objects.
However, I do admire the effort they put into these games: From a purely aesthetic standpoint the handpainted and scanned in background art (somewhat reminiscent of adventure games like King's Quest V) looks rather neat. I especially like the color-cycling effects to animate water and smoke etc., a technique that always looks surreal, yet magical to me. Sprites can be a bit weird, but decent enough and the music is pretty catchy.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Jan 30, 2019 22:51:49 GMT -5
I mean, I've talked to a couple of people who legitimately like Wand of Gamelon.
But they sure don't look like something I'd want to play.
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Post by windfisch on Jan 31, 2019 8:40:49 GMT -5
I mean, I've talked to a couple of people who legitimately like Wand of Gamelon. But they sure don't look like something I'd want to play. Actually, at some point I would like to try them. Does anybody have experience with CDi-emualtion?
Also: These games would be perfect material for fan-remakes based on the original assets and core concepts, but with reworked controls and level design tweaks (I mean as much as I love Another Metroid 2 Remake, there was no actual need to remake the original, as it is an already solid game.). Or a rom-hack, maybe? But then, who'd be passionate/crazy enough to do such a thing?
However, it is not completely without precedent as there is actually a fangame based on the SNES Jurassic Park 3D stages:
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Post by retr0gamer on Jan 31, 2019 11:14:12 GMT -5
I've played all the Zelda CDi games and the first two while they aren't amazing they are quite a bit of fun. They're far from bad despite their flaws and are quite ambitious. They can be frustrating sometimes but if you die you aren't put back that far so it's never awful.
The third CDi game, Zelda's Adventure on the other hand is a steaming pile of cack. It's unfinished and just unfair. It's complete garbage. However it usually gets presented as being better than the side scrolling games because it's top down and more like a traditional Zelda. And that's how you know the reviewer has never played the games because Zelda's Adventure is crotch rot.
As for CDi emulation it's unfortunately terrible. The main issue are control issues so it makes the already clunky Zelda games a nightmare and paints them in a very bad light. For a long time they only had hacked mouse controls.
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Post by kaoru on Jan 31, 2019 12:27:07 GMT -5
I've played all the Zelda CDi games and the first two while they aren't amazing they are quite a bit of fun. So pretty much on par with the rest of the series?
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Post by retr0gamer on Jan 31, 2019 18:37:47 GMT -5
I've played all the Zelda CDi games and the first two while they aren't amazing they are quite a bit of fun. So pretty much on par with the rest of the series? I'd say they are close enough to Zelda 2. Zelda 2 is better designed but has it's own bullshit moments. If the CDi games controlled a little better they'd give it a good run for it's money. Pity they're a bit clunky but getting that system to even scroll was a miracle as it involved over writing the bugged OS on boot. I wouldn't say they beat any Zelda games... even skyward sword which I find a slog. But the side scrollers are hardly trainwrecks and probably the best two games on that system. Also the only 2 games worth playing on that system other that don't have better ports than Zenith
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Post by wyrdwad on Feb 1, 2019 14:52:26 GMT -5
I guess speaking of Zelda 2, that might be another game worthy of mention in this topic. Because I legitimately LOVE Zelda 2. It's my favorite game in the entire Zelda series, hands down, and represents some of my proudest moments in gaming as a kid. The day I got the hammer from Death Mountain, I felt like THE MAN. I didn't mention it initially because, in my experience, it rarely gets dissed. But I guess it has been popular to hate on it for a long time now, so I really just want to put that notion to bed: Zelda 2 is a freaking GOOD-ASS GAME. -Tom
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Post by edmonddantes on Feb 1, 2019 14:54:51 GMT -5
Really, I see Zelda 2 get more love than hate. I personally love the hell out of it.
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Post by toei on Feb 1, 2019 18:29:31 GMT -5
There's definitely been a push back against Zelda 2's bad reputation. Every discussion I've seen on this topic, somebody comes out and proclaims their love for it.
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Post by windfisch on Feb 1, 2019 19:06:23 GMT -5
I've played all the Zelda CDi games and the first two while they aren't amazing they are quite a bit of fun. They're far from bad despite their flaws and are quite ambitious. They can be frustrating sometimes but if you die you aren't put back that far so it's never awful. The third CDi game, Zelda's Adventure on the other hand is a steaming pile of cack. It's unfinished and just unfair. It's complete garbage. However it usually gets presented as being better than the side scrolling games because it's top down and more like a traditional Zelda. And that's how you know the reviewer has never played the games because Zelda's Adventure is crotch rot. As for CDi emulation it's unfortunately terrible. The main issue are control issues so it makes the already clunky Zelda games a nightmare and paints them in a very bad light. For a long time they only had hacked mouse controls. Zelda's Adventure does indeed look pretty bad, which is why it was not even on my mind when I posted the previous comments. It's probably something one might check out for the trash-factor alone and not much more.
As for CDi emulation: I've read that MESS supports it, would that be an option?
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