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Post by edmonddantes on Feb 14, 2019 2:38:05 GMT -5
You did, because nowhere did I say my problem was "combat is boring." In fact I never mentioned combat. I mentioned that the interface is like an RTS but for some reason applied to an RPG and all the little annoyances it comes packed with... and all the examples I gave involved general overworld/town travel. Combat is actually the one area where this interface works really well. You said the gameplay was boring, and combat is obviously a big part of it. I would understand if you couldn't pause the game and give commands since that would be kinda like those baseless RTS missions for an entire game but it isn't like that. If backtracking is bothering you that much, you can try increasing the framerate. Any single map isn't particularly big so I don't really see the problem. ... We seem to be having a breakdown of communication here. My problem was that the interface was full of *irritants*. The only part I called "boring" was that there's a lot of short downtimes where you're just waiting for the party to get to where you clicked. For example, if you're in the center of Beregost and you don't want to be in Beregost anymore, you have to walk to the edge of the town (this being how you bring up the fast travel). So okay, I scroll the screen to said edge, click there, and... just wait for my guy to walk there. What do I do while he's walking? How am I meaningfully interacting with the game while he's walking? I suppose I could go through his backpack or something, but I probably already have. And THIS is assuming I just have the guy by himself, without having to worry about party members. Compare Elder Scrolls, where to bring up fast travel, you just hit a key on your keyboard and there it is. But since in Elder Scrolls, since I'm always directly controlling my char's movement, I sometimes even actually enjoy exploring. It's like the same weakness the Lemmings games have--they can be fun when you're putting things together and creating a safe path for the little critters, but every level invariably has a point where there is nothing left to do and you're just waiting for them to get to the exit, which is always the part I find the most tedious. But I really hate that this downtime is getting such overt focus now, because like I said it was just ONE irritant, and not even the most major one. It's just the one I'm having to explain. The most major irritant would probably have to be when you've got a full party and you want the character with the most Charisma to do the talking or the character with lockpicking (Imoen) to pick a lock, or anyone at all to pick a treasure, but then everyone is in their way and just milling around. It reminds me of the recurring "you're in my way, sir!" joke from Spoony's let's play of SWAT 4. I mean, if you eventually get spells that up the walking speed or abilities that allow Imoen to phase through other party members, yeah that would make the game better. Still kinda would like BG to be remade in Ultima V's game engine tho. Because Ultima V rocked. .... Done with the overt criticism/flaw discussion for the rest of this post. In other news, strongly considering restarting the game with a mage, because it seems like all the mages you get in-game are specialists who can't learn all the spells (and to be honest I'm not sure I want to give scribed spells to people who might leave my party if I find someone better). though another option I'm considering is exporting my current char (the fat dwarf fighter/cleric I drew bad MS-paint art of in the OP) then im-porting him in a new game... something I just learned you could do to get a sort of round-about new game plus... and then just adventuring with Imoen for awhile and dual-classing her into Mage, since Imoen is mai waifu and I've heard making her a mage is a popular strategy. So what I will be on the lookout for is places only two characters can survive and gain levels... I think Imoen should get at least to level 4 in Thief before dual-classing.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 14, 2019 6:12:50 GMT -5
And basically pressing a single direction instead, without fast travel between locations is meaningful interaction? This is a tiny nitpick to me.
Lemmings has fastforward for those parts in later versions.
Did you try the fixes yet? You keep ignoring every suggestion made. Anyway if you're indoors where I agree it can be a problem, just leave the rest of party at the door and explore with 1-2 people. And you do get items and spells (area of effect) to speed chars up later on.
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Post by zellsf on Feb 14, 2019 11:26:23 GMT -5
Besides the obvious problem of "why is holding down a key more meaningful interaction", Baldur's Gate is a RPG, it's supposed to be immersive, you're supposed to walk out of a town. Not instantly warp to another location.
I also disagree with the idea that there should be something to do, something happening all the time. That's what Marvel movies are for, not RPGs.
Ok, both those points might be meaningless to you, so something more relevant: Even at the end of Baldur's Gate 1 mages get very few spells per level. Non-specialist mages get one spell per level less. Specialization is necessary if you want your mages to be any useful in the first game, for a protagonist then you can just make a conjurer which doesn't have any important spells locked out.
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Post by edmonddantes on Feb 15, 2019 12:06:38 GMT -5
Sigh. Again I'm seeing communication errors.
One, just because I haven't communicated about fixes doesn't mean I'm "ignoring" them. It simply means I either haven't tried them yet or else I don't have anything meaningful to say about them just yet.
Two, "something happening all the time" isn't the same as "everything needs to be a big action scene." Especially in context of the very thing you brought up--the "why is pressing a button each step better"--when that's what "something happening" was in the context of and yet now its being made to be a separate point and it isn't.
As for why it matters.... Yes, pretty much its one of those nitpicky things I'm sure only bothers me... but still, when I'm pressing a button, I'm doing *something*. If you have one grain of rice, that's still more than no food at all.
Also even that minor interaction makes me feel like I'm involved with the journey. Similar to a thing I was talking about in another topic (about tabletop D&D ironically) where logically figuring out the traps and how to disarm them makes me more involved than just saying "I use my disarm traps skill" and rolling a percentage. Its small but it goes a long way.
Also if I'm supposed to enjoy exploring the town.. well like I keep saying... when I click the edge, I'm not exploring. My screen stays wherever I put it, and seeing a faded-out screen which only updates when my chars come close isn't exploring. If I had to manually control each step its possible I might see something that interests me and decide to investigate, or maybe just wonder "what's in that house?" or think "Actually maybe I do want to visit this smithy again." Its the same logic as why stores put cheap goods right next to the checkout aisle.
I think you guys are coming away thinking I hate Baldur's Gate. I don't. I just find its game design decisions hairscratching and somewhat un-optimal.
....
Current progress... started a new game, using my plan of exporting/re-importing my cleric/fighter character. Turns out when I did this, Imoen actually began the game as a level four thief so I went ahead and dual-classed her into a mage. Right now I'm just exploring the world before doing the Nashkel quest again.
Also killed an Ankheg. Wow Anhkegs are powerful in this game... but that shell was worth it.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 15, 2019 13:48:31 GMT -5
Alright, well try them and get back to me later then.
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Post by zellsf on Feb 19, 2019 6:46:38 GMT -5
Also if I'm supposed to enjoy exploring the town.. well like I keep saying... when I click the edge, I'm not exploring. My screen stays wherever I put it Don't do that then if it bothers you? Follow the party with the camera. That should be just as engaging as holding down a key.
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Post by edmonddantes on Feb 21, 2019 19:38:33 GMT -5
So, update. For the time being I'm on hiatus with BG, mostly just because I got Destiny of an Emperor and that wound up reminding me of Three Kingdoms... and also all this talk of exploration reminded me that I never beat Riven so I'm doing that now... basically, got sidetracked.
Anyway, for the meantime, we can tackle the other half of the OP and talk about art inspired by Baldur's Gate. I can't be the only one who drew custom avatars (and, more recently, made custom sound files... tho I wound up hating them and really, really need some voice-altering software).
One thing I'm running into a lot is that the readme doesn't really tell you what all the voice clips are for. There are four called "rare selected." Weirdly the built-in default voices don't even have lines for half the situations on the list. Anyone know what kind of situations cause the "rare selected" voice clips to play?
Also I wanted more info on Baldur.ini, but its hard to google that without finding tons of info on the Enhanced Edition instead of the Win9x original.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 22, 2019 5:14:28 GMT -5
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Post by wyldesyde on Feb 24, 2019 14:17:44 GMT -5
I remember playing Baldurs Gate way back in 2001 I think? I never played the second one or throne of bhaal tho. I should change that. I also really enjoyed Icewind Dale. Recently replayed it and finished it as well
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Post by zellsf on Feb 25, 2019 5:17:11 GMT -5
Also I wanted more info on Baldur.ini, but its hard to google that without finding tons of info on the Enhanced Edition instead of the Win9x original. There's nothing worth editing in baldur.ini. It's just the same options you find in the config program and in game options, plus some not-working/useless ones. Same goes for the rest of the Infinity Engine games.
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Post by edmonddantes on Feb 27, 2019 21:57:03 GMT -5
Oh. I just thought... well on my PCs (both of them) BG sometimes doesn't exit properly, I figured there might be an ini setting I could change.
What the game actually does, incidentally, is that it'll bring up the "you sure you want to quit?" box, I'll click yes and it'll play the animation... but the game won't actually quit, but in effect it has because I can still alt-f4 and restart windows, which I usually have to do. I've also had occasions where it hangs when loading a new map, such as a building's insides. The latter corrupted a save once. These are rare but they're annoying. And yes I do have the most recent patch installed.
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