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Post by moran on Aug 1, 2019 8:10:06 GMT -5
He's not necessarily wrong on a lot of his points, most are debatable though. The NES is my all time favorite console as well but to be fair it is outdated by today's standards and is very easy to criticize, especially comparing difficulty to today's games. But this can also be reversed(I think Fortnite and Minecraft are tough as hell to get into and really get a hang of, so I hate playing them but kudos to kids who can). What I didn't like most about the video is the use of intentionally poorly played footage. It gives the wrong impression of these games. There are tough parts and things that happen mid level that you need to memorize a certain pattern and practice certain stretches the game to get it.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Aug 1, 2019 8:22:31 GMT -5
Yeah the poorly played footage is a fair point against it, not that there aren't several bullshit moments in CV1. I don't think he's being disingenuous overall though.
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Post by psygnosis8 on Aug 1, 2019 8:55:30 GMT -5
Why would him being born earlier give him any more or less credibility? That said, even taking hardware limitations into account, some NES were poorly optimised, and there are plenty that were shoddily made, even for their time. Likewise, plenty of NES are difficult because they are designed poorly and to pad out the playing time, not because they were supposed to be all that challenging in the first place. Because he has given us nothing to prove he is any kind of “expert” on 6502 assembler (which is how most of these games were programmed), and likely has no firsthand experience developing games with the hardware limitations. This is something that might be tauight in college courses as an example, but unlikely to be something he would regularly work with in the 2000’s. PHe also doesn’t identify himself as an engineer, coder, game developer, or officially appointed “historian”, so why should his comments have any kind of legitimacy? He seems to be making up terms and lingo, without any references or sources. It’s my pet peeve when someone spouts their opinion and presents it as fact, and that’s what he seems to be doing here.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Aug 1, 2019 9:49:20 GMT -5
But seriously, you only have to find some similar games which didn't have much issues with slowdown and/or flicker. Ufouria, Jackal and SMB3 (except the airship levels IIRC?) would be a few.
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Post by moran on Aug 1, 2019 10:22:29 GMT -5
Best solution though? Don't watch his videos and let them slip into the ether. Like Psygnosis said, this guy isn't an expert and has no experience in development that we know of. This is just his opinion stated as fact. You don't have to go with it. It would be different if this was all first hand criticism from Miyamoto or Umezaki.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Aug 1, 2019 10:26:21 GMT -5
"I look back and play some of these games and there are a lot of places where, to be honest, I'm a little embarrassed," Miyamoto told Techland. "I look at Super Mario 3, and was like, '"This was it?! This is what we thought was good enough?'" -Miyamoto
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Post by moran on Aug 1, 2019 12:04:50 GMT -5
Straight from the source.
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Post by retr0gamer on Aug 1, 2019 13:43:20 GMT -5
I think a lot of young people just don't understand what these games ask of you. Today's games are very lenient and guide the player through them and try their hardest not to punish the player and lose their attention. NES games yoy have to invest time into learning the game. They are usually about an hour long but require a long time to master. I'd say a lot of younger people will give up on a game after the first game over. It doesn't help that emulation makes it easy to just jump in and try another game.
Then there is basing an opinion about a console based on its worst games which is nonsense. If we all did this the ps2 would be the worst console ever. But no. We should Base it on the good stuff.
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Post by KGRAMR on Aug 1, 2019 23:49:26 GMT -5
I'm from 1996 and even so, i can appreciate what every system released brought to the table in some capacity or another. Seems that the dude is one of those sportsbro men who buy stuff like FIFA and other crappy titles...
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Post by Owlman on Aug 2, 2019 5:33:42 GMT -5
Because he has given us nothing to prove he is any kind of “expert” on 6502 assembler (which is how most of these games were programmed), and likely has no firsthand experience developing games with the hardware limitations. This is something that might be tauight in college courses as an example, but unlikely to be something he would regularly work with in the 2000’s. PHe also doesn’t identify himself as an engineer, coder, game developer, or officially appointed “historian”, so why should his comments have any kind of legitimacy? He seems to be making up terms and lingo, without any references or sources. It’s my pet peeve when someone spouts their opinion and presents it as fact, and that’s what he seems to be doing here. And what does that have to do with the guy's age?
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Post by Owlman on Aug 2, 2019 5:37:00 GMT -5
I think a lot of young people just don't understand what these games ask of you. Today's games are very lenient and guide the player through them and try their hardest not to punish the player and lose their attention. NES games yoy have to invest time into learning the game. They are usually about an hour long but require a long time to master. I'd say a lot of younger people will give up on a game after the first game over. It doesn't help that emulation makes it easy to just jump in and try another game. Then there is basing an opinion about a console based on its worst games which is nonsense. If we all did this the ps2 would be the worst console ever. But no. We should Base it on the good stuff. This just reads like a "kids these days" post. Difficulty and punishment is not absent in modern games, as is evident by all the survival games, Dark Souls and its imitators, and ultrahard platformers in the vein of Super Meat Boy.
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Post by psygnosis8 on Aug 2, 2019 9:17:26 GMT -5
Because he has given us nothing to prove he is any kind of “expert” on 6502 assembler (which is how most of these games were programmed), and likely has no firsthand experience developing games with the hardware limitations. This is something that might be tauight in college courses as an example, but unlikely to be something he would regularly work with in the 2000’s. PHe also doesn’t identify himself as an engineer, coder, game developer, or officially appointed “historian”, so why should his comments have any kind of legitimacy? He seems to be making up terms and lingo, without any references or sources. It’s my pet peeve when someone spouts their opinion and presents it as fact, and that’s what he seems to be doing here. And what does that have to do with the guy's age? Well, I see your point. I have friends in their 30s that know enough about the hardware To probably make their own game, even if it was just a simple maple 0 project. But even if he is a huge hobbyist coding for ancient CPUs, He makes no mention of RAM limitations, rom size, Mappers, the limitations of the PPU, Or anything that could possibly explain why these games are the way they are. I think you’re getting a bit hung up on the age comment I made, which is understandable. It was just some random insult I came up with to emasculate him, because I’m a jerk he gets angry at stupid stuff he watches on the Internet, LOL . But to clarify my point, he just doesn’t seem to know shit, and is presenting his opinions as fact. Thus, he is not credible.
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Post by spanky on Aug 2, 2019 17:19:37 GMT -5
he doesn't like cookie clicker he can get fucked
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Aug 4, 2019 16:07:21 GMT -5
I'm from 1996 and even so, i can appreciate what every system released brought to the table in some capacity or another. Seems that the dude is one of those sportsbro men who buy stuff like FIFA and other crappy titles... I figured you'd be older, being the resident Jaguar fan and all.
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Post by retr0gamer on Aug 6, 2019 2:35:02 GMT -5
I think a lot of young people just don't understand what these games ask of you. Today's games are very lenient and guide the player through them and try their hardest not to punish the player and lose their attention. NES games yoy have to invest time into learning the game. They are usually about an hour long but require a long time to master. I'd say a lot of younger people will give up on a game after the first game over. It doesn't help that emulation makes it easy to just jump in and try another game. Then there is basing an opinion about a console based on its worst games which is nonsense. If we all did this the ps2 would be the worst console ever. But no. We should Base it on the good stuff. This just reads like a "kids these days" post. Difficulty and punishment is not absent in modern games, as is evident by all the survival games, Dark Souls and its imitators, and ultrahard platformers in the vein of Super Meat Boy. It's a different type of difficulty though. You have to invest the time into a game to figure it out and when you maybe only got 2 games a year this was perfectly fine. But if you play these games today and just bounce off them and move on to something else then it's hard to appreciate them. I find myself doing it myself with emulation. There's just so many games to play these days that I have to force myself to invest my time in these games and not get distracted. Super Meat Boy is a good example of what I mean by a different sort of difficulty as it's so difficult that there's no way it would have worked as a NES game. However it introduces a lot of modern sensibilities so even though its horrendously tough you are never put back more than 10-20 seconds worth of progress
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