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Post by phediuk on Oct 21, 2018 16:15:46 GMT -5
King's Quest (1984) has a credit card at the end, though it also features them on the title screen:
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Post by phediuk on Oct 21, 2018 16:25:35 GMT -5
I thought maybe Xanadu (1985) would have end credits, but it looks like the original PC-88 release does not:
However, they were added for the 1987 MSX release:
So, I'm still searching.
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Post by phediuk on Oct 21, 2018 16:29:33 GMT -5
Searched some 1984-1985 arcade games for end credits; so far, nothing in Space Harrier, Hang-On, Gradius, Ghosts n Goblins, 1942, Dragon Buster, or Marble Madness.
So, the search is still on.
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Post by phediuk on Nov 16, 2018 16:07:16 GMT -5
So, following on from what I was looking into earlier, i.e., early uses of end credits in games, here's Tower of Druaga:
It has a credits screen at the end, though it doesn't scroll, much like the aforementioned King's Quest, which precedes Druaga by a month (May vs. June of 1984). I suspect Druaga is the first arcade game with end credits, though feel free to correct me on that.
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Post by phediuk on Feb 16, 2019 18:52:58 GMT -5
Is Ultima 3 for the Apple II (1983) the first video game with a real soundtrack, in the way we think of them?
Up to and including 1983, as far as I know, basically every game soundtrack is either a little tune at the start of the game, or a single track that played through the entire game, or a series of "pulses" or background notes.
In Ultima 3, on the other hand, you've got 7 different tracks, each of them melodic and multi-channel, each of which loops continuously, and each of which is associated with a different area in the game. There's a town theme, a dungeon theme, a cave theme, etc., and you can arbitrarily switch music tracks by travelling between said areas. Thee features would become pretty much universal in gaming by the end of the 80s, but were not in 1983.
Is Ultima 3 the first game to handle music this way? It would have to be very close to the first, if not.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 21, 2019 12:48:15 GMT -5
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Post by phediuk on Feb 21, 2019 13:49:31 GMT -5
Already aware of the tape examples, which fall under the "single track continually plays throughout the game" category (or even not at all if you just stop the tape after the game loads.)
Ultima 3 really does seem like the first game soundtrack used in the way that would become standard in the late 80s and beyond, though; seven tracks, each associated with a particular area, you can switch between them by travelling between areas (i.e. the arbitrariness of the music played is tied to the arbitrariness of the player's navigation of the world), all multi-channel too.
Just to add to your list (and I mentioned this awhile back), I believe Snafu for the Intellivision (1981) is the first console game with multi-channel music during gameplay, as well as the first console game with a dedicated composer (i.e., not the designer themself): youtu.be/ZLgK5mP5HQs?t=119 (composer is Russell Lieblich btw)
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 21, 2019 14:07:59 GMT -5
In Sammy it seems the tape is synced with the game somehow since it stops and waits for the player to move? I haven't played it myself. I had a look at other 1983 Laserdisc games and added them to my yearly vgm tribute pages (some of them have only ambient fx or sfx only during gameplay though): minirevver.weebly.com/vgm-1980-1983.htmlNot saying you're wrong and I think Ultima 3 is a very good example, but being able to move back and forth between areas and manually trigger different songs is kind of a niche requirement for a "real" game OST and would disqualify scrolling shooters and all linear, level-based games too which were arguably the norm for the 80s and a few years into the 90s. I believe the first multi-channel in-game track is from Carnival (ARC, AY8910): www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7X0iCGCv0Y&t=20sEdit: The sfx seem to be handled by a separate sampler chip, didn't catch that before. I'd have to check what in Mame or something. Edit 2: On a related note, is this the first chip generated vocal track in game (1987)? vgmrips.net/packs/pack/psycho-soldier-snk-triple-z80#03-psycho-soldier-theme-area-1-jp
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Post by phediuk on Feb 21, 2019 15:25:56 GMT -5
If we're just talking about linear level-based games, what would be the first game with multiple levels and a unique multi-channel track for every level?
Marble Madness (arcade, 1984) would have to be close: 6 levels, all with their own theme, as well as a unique ending theme. It was also the very FM-synthesis-based game soundtrack.
Marble Madness is also notable for being collaborative, with both Brad Fuller and Hal Canon, neither of whom were the game's designer (Mark Cerny), contributing tracks. Were there any collaborative game soundtracks before this?
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Post by phediuk on Feb 21, 2019 15:36:21 GMT -5
The earliest antecedent here would be Ghostbusters (C64, 1984), which plays a "Ghostbusters!" vocal sample at the beginning of the title theme, and this sample can be played at any time during the intro theme by pressing the space bar. Also, the title screen displays the lyrics (in sing-along fashion) to encourage the player to add the vocals in. Not quite a vocal theme tune, but clearly a step in that direction.
Also, while it doesn't have outright lyrics like Psycho Soldier, The Ninja Warriors (arcade, 1987) does contain quite a few vocal effects in its music:
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Post by condroid on Feb 21, 2019 15:47:33 GMT -5
Journey (Arcade) has a different track for each of its five stages plus a song from tape for the final level. Forbidden Forest (C64) might also qualify depending on your definition of "melodic". It's definitely an early cinematic score although I have never been able to find an exact release date for that game, other than "1983". There are also a few games that cycle multiple (more than 2) in-game tracks like Super Pipeline (C64) or Lost Tomb (Arcade). Btw, the original Apple II release of Ultima III didn't have any music. The Mockingboard support was added in a later version which was probably also released in 1983. Double Dribble (1986) also has a vocal song. There is probably some stuff on computers as well, Starglider for example.
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Post by phediuk on Feb 21, 2019 16:05:11 GMT -5
Journey (Arcade) has a different track for each of its five stages plus a song from tape for the final level. Forbidden Forest (C64) might also qualify depending on your definition of "melodic". It's definitely an early cinematic score although I have never been able to find an exact release date for that game, other than "1983". There are also a few games that cycle multiple (more than 2) in-game tracks like Super Pipeline (C64) or Lost Tomb (Arcade). Btw, the original Apple II release of Ultima III didn't have any music. The Mockingboard support was added in a later version which was probably also released in 1983. Double Dribble (1986) also has a vocal song. There is probably some stuff on computers as well, Starglider for example. I'm aware that Ultima 3 soundtrack was added later but all sources still indicate 1983 so w/e. The Atari 8-bit and C64 versions also contain the full soundtrack and were apparently released in '83 too.
Nice catch on Starglider; that's some impressive stuff for the time. I thought of Forbidden Forest too, but some of the music is more like background noise. Still could count though.
How about collaborative soundtracks, though? Anything preceding Marble Madness (1984)?
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Post by condroid on Feb 21, 2019 16:16:35 GMT -5
I just had a quick look at the HVSC SID collection and there are multiple C64 soundtracks from 1984 that were done by two people.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 21, 2019 16:39:18 GMT -5
phediuk That's pretty cool. I don't think audio interactivity like that was really a thing until Toejam & Earl (1991) otherwise. Excluding Laserdisc games like Interstellar Laser Fantasy and besides what condroid mentioned, Bomb Jack from 1984 is kind of close at 3 level tracks, although one of them is a Beatles cover. In 1985 there were several games: Gradius (7 tracks plus the level intro one), Mag Max I think (7 tracks), Scooter Shooter (5 tracks), and Space Harrier if you count all the unique boss themes. The game City Connection had 11 variations (one per level) on a 50s rock 'n roll style remix of a Tchaikovsky piece, with changes based on the country of the level which is kinda cool in itself. One game I'm unsure about is Wizardry, which was originally without music but had an OST made for the PC-88 release in 1985 I think, but it could also have been made in 1987. Not sure about collabs before that, it's often tricky to find reliable info from that early. There may have been some composing collaboration between Hirokazu Tanaka (Hip Tanaka) and Yukio Kaneoka for the NES version of Donkey Kong (1983), or maybe the former just arranged the latter's music for the NES. Tanaka only did the sfx for the arcade version, but made the sound driver that Kaneoka used to compose with on NES. www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/Yukio_Kaneokacondroid Nice, although it seems Double Dribble is also from 1987. January though so it is earlier. www.arcade-history.com/?n=double-dribble-the-ultimate-basketball-game-model-gx690&page=detail&id=680
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Post by phediuk on Feb 21, 2019 17:24:58 GMT -5
phediuk That's pretty cool. I don't think audio interactivity like that was really a thing until Toejam & Earl (1991) otherwise. Excluding Laserdisc games like Interstellar Laser Fantasy and besides what condroid mentioned, Bomb Jack from 1984 is kind of close at 3 level tracks, although one of them is a Beatles cover. In 1985 there were several games: Gradius (7 tracks plus the level intro one), Mag Max I think (7 tracks), Scooter Shooter (5 tracks), and Space Harrier if you count all the unique boss themes. The game City Connection had 11 variations (one per level) on a 50s rock 'n roll style remix of a Tchaikovsky piece, with changes based on the country of the level which is kinda cool in itself. One game I'm unsure about is Wizardry, which was originally without music but had an OST made for the PC-88 release in 1985 I think, but it could also have been made in 1987. Not sure about collabs before that, it's often tricky to find reliable info from that early. There may have been some composing collaboration between Hirokazu Tanaka (Hip Tanaka) and Yukio Kaneoka for the NES version of Donkey Kong (1983), or maybe the former just arranged the latter's music for the NES. Tanaka only did the sfx for the arcade version, but made the sound driver that Kaneoka used to compose with on NES. www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/Yukio_Kaneokacondroid Nice, although it seems Double Dribble is also from 1987. January though so it is earlier. www.arcade-history.com/?n=double-dribble-the-ultimate-basketball-game-model-gx690&page=detail&id=680 As far as number of tracks is concerned, I don't think any 1983-85 games beat Lazy Jones (C64, 1984).
Now granted they're very simple tracks and all have the same tempo. Ultima 3's music is considerably more complex, as is the music for other contemporary games like Aztec Challenge and Ballblazer.
You know, I think Lazy Jones might be the second game, after Ultima 3, that allows the player to arbitrarily switch music by going between different areas. Prove me wrong!
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