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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 1:18:33 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Mar 9, 2009 1:18:33 GMT -5
www.hardcoregaming101.net/siren/siren.htmThis is Sony's survival horror series. The first one was damn hard, and while the second one was better, it was never released in the US since its predecessor flopped so hard (it was released in Europe though.) The remake of the first game was recently released as PSN download, although you can buy physical discs of it in Asia, Europe and Japan. It's a good alternative to Silent Hill: Homecoming, at any rate.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 14:12:15 GMT -5
Post by Sketcz-1000 on Mar 9, 2009 14:12:15 GMT -5
As a huge fan of the trilogy (I'm playing through the second right now), I'm glad to see an article on this. I briefly considered doing one myself but thought it too much work, so well done that man for writing it!
Anyway, whatever comments I give are going to be biased. I'm not trying to criticise, I think it's a great article, very detailed, and I'm glad it's being added to HG101's roster. Really glad!
Anyway, I like the article, but it's a bit long in places: I found myself occasionally skimming the first part, and the paragraph about extra characters in the second part feels totally superflous and uneeded. It's just a wall of text names.
Some mistakes: * "various sib-plots" (spelling)
* Only called Forbidden Siren in Europe, NOT Japan
* The second game also has digitised faces, just like the first, although they are modelled a bit better - it's one of the things I like best about the first two games.
* "Siren: New Translation received a Blu-Ray release in Asia and Japan: European and North American PS3 owners weren’t so lucky...."
Erm... Blood Curse did get a European Blue-ray release, I'm holding it in my hands right now (that's a lie, it's actually on my shelf, but I can see the shelf from where I'm typing). Actually, the cover of it is at the top of the page! Oh, and the European version comes with a making-of documentary, which was fascinating! Saddly it's not on youtube, but it's worth trying to find to watch. They explain why they remade it, and there's some footage of them toying with the Siren 1 engine on PS3 hardware, using a new lighting system.
Hmm, I kinda wanted to read up a bit more on the introduction of American characters, since it symbolises to me Japan's growing determination to appeal directly to the west. Philosophically this is interesting, since you have to wonder, to what degree are Japaese developers tailoring their games so as to appease an American audience (the British seem more forgiving, I would guess, since we've gotten 2 or 3 oddities you guys didn't get).
Also, the next bit isn't a mistake, but I strongly disagree with it (Siren 1): *** That being said, the game is completely fair. A careful player will never be screwed over by poor controls or unforeseen situations ***
Siren 1 is completely unfair, I'd argue. it's one of the most difficult games I've played, which renders the game almost unplayable, and not very enjoyable. I finished it, but would never want to do that again. Despite being very careful the controls will mess you up, especially when you're running from the dog-like shibito and end up stuck on the corner of a piece of scenary. These damned things, along with the flying shibito, also add an element of randomness, meaning you can't just learn the levels, you have to rely on luck. The worst level was a long forest stage, where you had to knock out the dog shibito, and run past a flying one, and the dogs kept waking up. Some might disagree with me, but the first was infuriating, unfair, and determined to screw you over when playing.
Also, are things really clearer at the end of Blood Curse? I thought it never explained much at all, whereas the storyline of Siren 1 was much better fleshed out (I did get hold of a lot of archive items in 1 though, so maybe that's why - and my god, the story was good).
I think Siren 2 is not only the best in the trilogy, but it's probably one of my favourite games on the PS2. The archives contain videos, songs, TV adverts, even a whole retro game (which I've yet to unlock, but I will, soon...). The fact that it's easier makes it a lot more enjoyable. I also like how you can permanently go into first person mode, and when controlling the soldiers in the game it's almost kinda how you'd imagine the Japanese would do an FPS (I mention this because it was on the HG101 podcast). It's also worth mentioning that there are no flying Shibito in Siren 2, which greatly eases the journey. Oh, and there's a lot of tactics in terms of shooting out or destroying lights to avoid the shibito. One level i found very difficult, since I kept getting spotted, until I'd destroyed all the lights in it with a sniper rifle.
I think the whole usage of light and dark needs a stronger mention, since that's the crux of the system. Some enemies are drawn to light and you need to shroud yourself in darkness to survive. Others survive in the dark and you desperately need to search for light to survive. Some levels have a mixture of both. It's a very clever system, solidly implemented, but not with the infuriating difficulty of the first game. There is a tremendous amount of depth in Siren 2, which is what dissapointed me with Blood Curse. it felt like 3 steps back. A good game, yes, but simplified and not as interesting as a result.
I kinda wanted more info on Siren 2 since I think it's such a good game, which does quite a few unique things, and really pushes the bounderies of the genre. Hell, I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best examples of the genre (Resi 4 was more of an action title, really).
Did the author complete it? It just feels like he didn't play it much.
Phew, that's enough of my typing!
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 14:28:50 GMT -5
Post by cj iwakura on Mar 9, 2009 14:28:50 GMT -5
Slight correction: Yamaoka didn't compose the score for the Silent Hill movie, but some of his music was used in it, and the composer was heavily influenced by his work(supposedly).
It was still quite good, all things considered.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Mar 9, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -5
Anyway, I like the article, but it's a bit long in places: I found myself occasionally skimming the first part, and the paragraph about extra characters in the second part feels totally superflous and uneeded. It's just a wall of text names. I wasn't quite sure about that. The author wrote up a ton of bios but I only really used the ones I could find portraits for and stuck the rest down there. I might end up just chopping it. That is pretty interesting. Siren flopped here, I think for a number of reasons - it was too difficult, the localization was bad (we're not used to British accents in cases like this), and I think the populace was burnt out of Japanese horror, both from stuff like The Ring and The Grudge, and Fatal Frame, which also didn't do terribly well AFAIK. The Euro territories seem to like horror games in general, though (I remember Silent Hill 3 was released there first, even before Japan) which is probably how you guys got the sequel. I'm sure the suits at Konami just figured it bombed because the characters weren't Americans, which I think is too much of an oversimplification. It does feel weird that you have all of these gaijin running out the Japanese forests for some reason, although I like how they interact with the Japanese folk. Anyway, I fixed up the factual mistakes for now.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 15:18:10 GMT -5
Post by Sketcz-1000 on Mar 9, 2009 15:18:10 GMT -5
Cool, I should add: I don't know if the Asian version had a documentary or not. The Euro one's has to be accessed by running it as a Blueray film.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 15:43:01 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Mar 9, 2009 15:43:01 GMT -5
Pretty sure it doesn't - it's the one I own, and it doesn't mention anything about it.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 19:08:47 GMT -5
Post by Garamoth on Mar 9, 2009 19:08:47 GMT -5
Slight correction: Yamaoka didn't compose the score for the Silent Hill movie, but some of his music was used in it, and the composer was heavily influenced by his work(supposedly). It was still quite good, all things considered. What? The score from the Silent Hill movie is 95% songs ripped straight from the video games (there's also a Johny Cash song in there). They might have been somewhat remixed, but they still sound like the games note for note. Anyway, Siren is one of my all-time favorite games, so I feel I have to add some comments. I guess the ways things go is I say stuff and you do what you want with it. Here goes: - You should describe the fact that sightjacking feels like tuning a TV antenna, with white noise and a blurry picture. It's part of the charm, I think. - The characters are actual people and they do their own voice acting (in japanese), and are also their own actors (with their digitized faces and the exact same clothes). Check this out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvthtQcBjwQ- On the same subject, here's the very real persons behind the characters of Siren 1 (in French, though, ooops) forbiddensiren2.oldiblog.com/?page=articles&rub=321261 and Siren 2 forbiddensiren2.oldiblog.com/?page=lastarticle&id=1271724&coms=1271724- In Siren 2, I've always found it fascinating that the Shibito (zombies) and the Yamibito (vampires) hate each other and will try to kill each other on sight, sometimes even ignoring you. They don't take this idea far enough, but it's cool to finally see a game in which everything in the universe isn't allied against you (High Elves and demons fighting alongside? Sure, if it's to kill the player!) - Tiny detail, but you don't have to stay still to gain health - Did you actually create a NTSC iso of Siren 2? Because I've had a lot of trouble getting the PAL version to work 'cuz I don't have a HDTV (bought that DVD too soon on ebay...) Otherwise they're great articles... I just had to put in my 2 cents.
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Vonlenska
Junior Member
spinning madly on
Posts: 56
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 19:48:46 GMT -5
Post by Vonlenska on Mar 9, 2009 19:48:46 GMT -5
Yeah, the Silent Hill movie just takes songs from the first two or three games and tosses Ring of Fire into one scene. I think a few of the Yamaoka tracks might be slightly altered, but the differences are so minor it's hard to even tell.
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Vonlenska
Junior Member
spinning madly on
Posts: 56
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 20:40:09 GMT -5
Post by Vonlenska on Mar 9, 2009 20:40:09 GMT -5
First of all, this is a really well written and satisfying article. It's pretty definitive without getting into the super detailed; there's not much else that I feel needs to be added or altered. Reading it was a total delight and I'm thrilled to see these games getting a proper mention here. Some other thoughts: Siren 1 is the most fair video game ever made, I think. It requires players to think logically about how to get out of dangerous situations (i.e., "Okay, I'm going to walk out of this room and shoot that thing" is usually a Bad Idea, when it's even an option). If players are unable to do that, the game punishes them. Hard. That's fair. It's also kind of mean and nasty, but it's fair. I think the semiawkward (they're not that bad!) controls and timing/patience issues a lot of people complain about just facilitate what the game is trying to do. Screwing up because the controls didn't do what you wanted is sort of like screwing up because your character tripped and every shibito in a ten mile radius heard the fall: frustrating, but when you're scared and lost in dangerous, alien territory, well, that happens. I think the fact that players "tune" the sightjacking is worthy of mention, as well, along with more talk about the facemapping. Both are little things that make the games unique, and both are the logical end of Silent Hill 1+2's radio and highly expressive FMV characters. Also also, quick typo check: the third from the last paragraph on the first page says, "Siren focuses on keeping the player drawn into it’s world," and should say "its." The standard English spelling is usually, "Bosch," without an E. Finally, the fourth from last paragraph on the second page reads, "The narrative, due primarily to the branching storyline, is even more obtuse and confusing than the first game, which is unfortunate." when it should end with, "which is awesome." Otherwise, great writeup!
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 21:36:08 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Mar 9, 2009 21:36:08 GMT -5
- Did you actually create a NTSC iso of Siren 2? Because I've had a lot of trouble getting the PAL version to work 'cuz I don't have a HDTV (bought that DVD too soon on ebay...) Nope. I tried the patcher but could never get it quite working - even the people that did said it always cut off the text. I just ran it into my capture card and set DScaler to PAL.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 21:50:36 GMT -5
Post by Garamoth on Mar 9, 2009 21:50:36 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the problem I had too... the text in the lower part kept being cut off, even after adjusting the screen. I only had the Japanese voice track too, so things were kinda hard to understand. Videos didn't work either. Yeah, maybe importing that game was a bit of a fool's errand. I'll try again once I get a HDTV, I hear I makes things much simpler.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 23:12:38 GMT -5
Post by kimimi on Mar 9, 2009 23:12:38 GMT -5
Siren 1 is completely unfair, I'd argue. it's one of the most difficult games I've played, which renders the game almost unplayable, and not very enjoyable. I finished it, but would never want to do that again. Despite being very careful the controls will mess you up, especially when you're running from the dog-like shibito and end up stuck on the corner of a piece of scenary. These damned things, along with the flying shibito, also add an element of randomness, meaning you can't just learn the levels, you have to rely on luck. The worst level was a long forest stage, where you had to knock out the dog shibito, and run past a flying one, and the dogs kept waking up. Some might disagree with me, but the first was infuriating, unfair, and determined to screw you over when playing. I agree, although I had a different problem - I remember getting shot dead out of the blue a few times, and I didn't have the patience after that. That is pretty interesting. Siren flopped here, I think for a number of reasons - it was too difficult, the localization was bad (we're not used to British accents in cases like this)... The localisation wasn't bad, but it was poorly acted. The comment about British voices is unfair though - if I whinged about every game with "out of place" American VO (which would be anything not created in America, or featuring American characters) I'd be here all day.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 23:27:01 GMT -5
Post by Discoalucard on Mar 9, 2009 23:27:01 GMT -5
It's true though - I don't mean it as offensive or anything, but to us Americans, it feels really out of place to hear a British accent unless it's specifically for something British. Pretty much any review at the time brought this up. I'm sure you could complain that hearing American accents all the time sounds weird for you guys. Most localization is done here, though, which accounts for it.
I just got this British localized PS2 game called BCV, and it's so weird to see anime characters dubbed with British accents, although I'm sure it'd seem normal to you guys.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 23:37:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 23:37:19 GMT -5
Dagnabbit. So getting Siren 2 to work requires an expensive video card and some program called DScaler? Does that let you play anything regardless of region or NTSC / PAL formatting? I'm pretty unfamiliar with emulation and the like.
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Siren
Mar 9, 2009 23:37:23 GMT -5
Post by kimimi on Mar 9, 2009 23:37:23 GMT -5
It's not normal for us either, as we get all our anime imported from you lot.
I don't mean to be offensive either, but I find the "OMG they have different accents!" approach pretty myopic - the world is full of people who aren't American, if we have to tolerate you lot in our media every day then I don't see why the opposite should be considered strange.
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