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Post by Shellshock on Nov 12, 2006 10:11:22 GMT -5
Who is Tetsuya Nomura and did he actually say all that? Personally I've never quite lived with FF7 being considered "one of the greatest epics of all time." It's a weak game that was massively hyped and is only so highly-regarded because it sold so well and was so hyped. It had "impact" in that it made RPGs more popular in America and that's why many remember it. Not to mention, nearly every Square RPG afterwards was very similar stylistically so its easy to recall FF7. While FF7 is nowhere near being the WORST RPG I've ever played, or even the worst game of the FF series (that would be FF2), it's certainly not very high on the list and certainly shouldn't be an "epic." EDIT: I could write a Crank about FF7, but I won't. For one, Kurt has already decreed that FF7 is not allowed. For another, I think I understand and agree with that decision. I'm sure I could really crank it up, but I wouldn't be saying something that hasn't been said by every other FF7 critic in the galaxy. I raise my hand and second your thoughts!!
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Nov 12, 2006 15:48:49 GMT -5
Funny, for me FF7 is kind of "just another". I mean, it's okay, and the music was the standard high-quality. But the one thing that bothers me is that I like that much-hated plot. Having a harsh past AND living in a world of mixed magic and technology just hadn't gotten old in those days, but maybe you'd think the plot hasn't aged well.
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Post by necromaniac on Nov 12, 2006 16:40:13 GMT -5
It was groundbreaking and fresh at the time of it's release, maby it hasn't aged all that well, but the same applies to the first Ultimas, Dragon Quest, the first Final Fantasy and many other titles that are never the less considered classics. My favorite Final Fantasy is number IV btw.
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Post by MRSKELETON on Nov 12, 2006 18:18:39 GMT -5
I like games that do the magic + technology thing, but so many games these days do it HORRIBLY
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Nov 12, 2006 18:30:37 GMT -5
It was groundbreaking and fresh at the time of it's release, maby it hasn't aged all that well... I don't see how, the ATB system had aged by three games, the Materia stuff really wasn't all that great, OMG HOOFS, the characters didn't even look good in FMVs, the music quality was already a staple in the series, espers had been there since FFIII, although I must admit the dynamic camera angles were kinda new, and that it was easily one of the more hyped games ever.
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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 12, 2006 18:45:34 GMT -5
It was definitely the graphics. At the time I was really excited about the 3D graphics (especially in battle, which still look pretty decent IMO, although the rest of the game hasn't aged too well), plus the cutscenes were absolutely incredible, and were FAR better than anything during that era. Now that this has become more or less standard, it's definitely much less impressive.
It also had a number of WTF moments that Final Fantasy games are known for, which also helped it out.
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Post by dai jou bu on Nov 12, 2006 19:51:41 GMT -5
You don't fucking mess with guitar hero. If you do I swear to god I will drive nails through your legs. Plus playing guitar hero is actually *fun* I can see how it's fun. My emphasis was for people who become hardcore about it, neglecting the fact that the game is supposed to represent an idealized version of yourself as a professional electrical guitar player. It's not supposed to be a real substitute to use in order to learn how to play/master a real guitar. It's kinda like those crazy kids who buy all different versions of Dance Dance Revolution/In the Groove/Pump it up/etc. and then talk about how impressive it was to see how X guy was able to hit all of the steps for Y song and they want to be able to do the same thing, but when they're presented with a scenario that involves real dancing, all of their skills they've acquired by playing those games doesn't transfer very well. Heck, someone should just bash rhythm games in general, Para Para Paradise excluded, since that's pretty close to simulating real para para dance moves.
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Post by jameseightbitstar on Nov 12, 2006 21:23:20 GMT -5
It was groundbreaking and fresh at the time of it's release, maby it hasn't aged all that well... I don't see how, the ATB system had aged by three games, the Materia stuff really wasn't all that great, OMG HOOFS, the characters didn't even look good in FMVs, the music quality was already a staple in the series, espers had been there since FFIII, although I must admit the dynamic camera angles were kinda new, and that it was easily one of the more hyped games ever. I second this thought. For me, "age" has nothing to do with it. I was one of the people who got caught in the hype, and bought a PS1 just for this game. And yet, I was beginning to feel animosity towards the thing almost as soon as I started playing it. The game didn't impress me. I didn't really like the characters. the materia system was just a weakened version of Espers. I didn't care for how sometimes, it was hard to see where you were. While nowadays I would say no RPG's plot is really great, FF7's felt basic to me even at the time--I mean, an ex-mercenary who goes after a bishounen he used to know who wants to destroy the world by crashing a meteor into it? The music didn't seem as good as the previous games, and in a lot of ways FF7 felt like a step DOWNWARD from FF6. That's my thoughts based on memories of its first release. I tried to replay the game again a few months back, but got stuck at the part where you have to find the parts of an outfit to disguise Cloud as a girl. I think I'll give the game another shot soon and see what I think of it today. EDIT: I also remember not liking how the game dwells on Midgar for three hours before letting you into the outside world, but that's just a matter of preference.
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Nov 13, 2006 5:00:23 GMT -5
Yeah, getting out of Midgar was too huge of a milestone. Then there was the huge plot hole of Shinra never really setting themselves straight and kinda being on the sidelines.
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Post by Shellshock on Nov 13, 2006 9:05:27 GMT -5
Funny, for me FF7 is kind of "just another". I mean, it's okay, and the music was the standard high-quality. But the one thing that bothers me is that I like that much-hated plot. Having a harsh past AND living in a world of mixed magic and technology just hadn't gotten old in those days, but maybe you'd think the plot hasn't aged well. I didn't hate the plot, it was just plain good. The technical part of it is what I didn't like I think. Awful poligon graphics, confusing prerendered backgrounds... I mean, why play VII if I can play VI again since it doesn't suffer from those faults.
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Post by Shellshock on Nov 13, 2006 9:08:11 GMT -5
It was groundbreaking and fresh at the time of it's release, maby it hasn't aged all that well, but the same applies to the first Ultimas, Dragon Quest, the first Final Fantasy and many other titles that are never the less considered classics. My favorite Final Fantasy is number IV btw. It was groundbreaking in the technical department? Yes. But then the rest, if you think about it, is comparable to VI. You liked IV? Don't you think V is better? By the way, play FF I on the GBA, it blew me away.
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Post by Shellshock on Nov 13, 2006 9:10:08 GMT -5
It was definitely the graphics. At the time I was really excited about the 3D graphics (especially in battle, which still look pretty decent IMO, although the rest of the game hasn't aged too well), plus the cutscenes were absolutely incredible, and were FAR better than anything during that era. Now that this has become more or less standard, it's definitely much less impressive. I agree, it was mostly the technical part.
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Post by kyouki on Nov 13, 2006 9:56:20 GMT -5
I second this thought. For me, "age" has nothing to do with it. I was one of the people who got caught in the hype, and bought a PS1 just for this game. And yet, I was beginning to feel animosity towards the thing almost as soon as I started playing it. The game didn't impress me. I didn't really like the characters. the materia system was just a weakened version of Espers. I didn't care for how sometimes, it was hard to see where you were. While nowadays I would say no RPG's plot is really great, FF7's felt basic to me even at the time--I mean, an ex-mercenary who goes after a bishounen he used to know who wants to destroy the world by crashing a meteor into it? The music didn't seem as good as the previous games, and in a lot of ways FF7 felt like a step DOWNWARD from FF6. That's my thoughts based on memories of its first release. I tried to replay the game again a few months back, but got stuck at the part where you have to find the parts of an outfit to disguise Cloud as a girl. I think I'll give the game another shot soon and see what I think of it today. EDIT: I also remember not liking how the game dwells on Midgar for three hours before letting you into the outside world, but that's just a matter of preference. I agree with a lot of this. I bought PSX mostly for Soul Edge, Tekken 2, and the fact that I could see that Nintendo was not going to be releasing any games I was interested in on their N64. Final Fantasy VII was the first console RPG I played where I started to get annoyed with the console RPG conventions. Random battles were driving me nuts, the ultra linearity of the story meant that if you didn't like the story the game was meaningless, the translation was awful, and there was really nothing to the gameplay other than running around hitting X to select from fight/summon from the battle prompts. It took my forever, but I finished the game... but after the first few hours I was forcing myself the rest of the way. The only thing that was technically impressive about FF7 was how smoothly the FMV integrated with the gameplay. Otherwise it was no more advanced than Alone in the Dark (!) with slightly higher polygon counts and a turn based battle system thrown in instead of real time fighting. At least the graphics in the battle system looked much better. However, wasn't it a bit jarring to see the multiple versions of character models? You had the more proportionately-correct models in the important CG scenes, the much less detailed but still proportionate models in the battle scenes, the super-deformed super low-poly models during the exploration parts of the game, and then the super deformed CG models. I remember playing the game thinking, "Why can't they be consistent?!" The music seemed to be a step down to me from FFVI. The instrument quality (with the exception of One Winged Angel) seems so low fidelity, and the music seems so simplistic in comparison especially to FFIV. There are a lot of "goofy" tracks too.
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Post by shido on Nov 13, 2006 10:50:48 GMT -5
I think FF7 is overrated, but it still a very good game. I liked the plot, I liked few characters, I liked the music and the materia system was nice. But the most important thing about FF7 is that it was the first game who tried to deliver a deep and complex story. Yes, he failed, but atleast he tried. And that opened the door for true and successive deep stories in console RPGs like Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Suikoden 2 and more. For that reason alone, opening the way for the best games in the genre, I am respecting FF7.
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Post by YourAverageJoe on Nov 13, 2006 17:15:03 GMT -5
I thought all of the SNES FFs tried and achieved that...
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