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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Dec 5, 2010 10:45:05 GMT -5
Why do you guys care so much about video games being recognized as a "legitimate art form" by art critics? Most art critics are snobs who will praise splotches of paint as "true art", while disregard the works of actual talented artists, like say Alex Ross, Glenn Fabry, and Katsuhiro Otomo (just to name a few of my favorites), because they work on "comic books". People use the term "art" to make any pretentious crap seem more important than what it is, when in reality the word "art" has more than one accepted definition and arguing whether "games can be art" is a moot point anyway. It happens in the film industry as well. There's no way that so called "art films" like Sideways or Lost in Translation are more important than the Seventh Seal or Rashomon.
Just for the record, I'm not saying Another World was a bad game. It was a decent platformer with a somewhat unique graphical style, but it gets way more accolades than it really deserves. It's definitely not more important "historically" or "artistically" (whatever the hell that means) than the original Castlevania or Metroid, or even the original Prince of Persia for that matter (which Out of this World was imitating). The adventure genre, with games like Monkey Island and Maniac Mansion, also did a better job at pushing video games as a storytelling medium than Out of this World did.
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Audi
Full Member
Posts: 133
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Post by Audi on Dec 5, 2010 10:47:42 GMT -5
Ah but it would bug the shit out of me in the same way that phrase used to simply describe a monster that chase you in a way to make yakety sax appropriate for a scene that take a whole minute at best bugs me out too[/
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Post by derboo on Dec 5, 2010 12:13:12 GMT -5
once again,i'm not condemning the content,i'm condemning the deliver... it's not enough to simply say that you have a single companion that helps you in an alien world but "YOU BUILD TRUST AND FRIENDSHIP WITH HIM,YOU WORRY ABOUT HIM,YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HE'S DOING" there's so much exageration here the whole message fly completly over my head and all i see is one guy ranting about how much he loves this tofu-shaped bunch of pixel I think this is part of the reason 2nd person is frowned upon outside of video game journalism. There's a huge difference between "you press b to jump" and "you care for xyz". More indirect phrasing could make stuff like this more universally acceptable. If that's the goal, anyway.
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Post by theallseeingmole on Dec 5, 2010 12:56:37 GMT -5
To be honest,the only fault I can find in Another World is that is very short.I know that its "cinematic" nature is a limit to the gameplay,but I think it's part of its charm.
Obviously I cannot deny that the gameplay is a bit rough and that Flashback was more cohesive and playable and somewhat less linear,but dismissing this game is wrong and has a distinct "one of a kind" atmosphere even though it had some obvious inspirations such as Prince of Persia and Impossible Mission.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Dec 5, 2010 14:38:57 GMT -5
Great article, Audi. Sorry I couldn't contribute.
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Post by wyrdwad on Dec 5, 2010 16:53:45 GMT -5
I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with that phrasing.
...except that it's about Ico, which is an awful game on almost every level IMHO... but that's another issue altogether. (:
-Tom
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 17:04:17 GMT -5
Jesus Christ, man. Now I KNOW you're crazy.
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Post by wyrdwad on Dec 5, 2010 18:39:54 GMT -5
Read my GameFAQs review of Ico sometime. It's an early review of mine, but I feel I explained my frustration with it quite well.
-Tom
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Post by Wildcat on Dec 5, 2010 19:24:25 GMT -5
I didn't care much for ICO, either, truth be told. Perhaps I tried it too late.
A fascinating article, Audi. I'll have to consider picking this up one day - I've always been a little intrigued by it since I saw it as a lad, but I've never seen a copy of it. Thank the Internet!
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Post by justjustin on Dec 5, 2010 19:39:04 GMT -5
What irritates me is that a lot of the so-called art games are called art just based on their particular content. They're usually games with simpler graphics, quieter music (preferring ambiance), less focus on instigating violence (and if you do, it's questioned in the story), and the mechanics are often stripped to the bare minimum if it fits into an established genre. Bonus points if it's made by ONE person or a small development team, because then its easier to pick out one or two people to worship and emphasize how awesome they are for doing everything themselves.
And yet games that are absurdly fun and addicting are relegated to being lowly videogames because, obviously, art can't be fun, or too fun I should say... and it can't be about certain things either. It can't be too violent or have a soundtrack that's too prominent, can't be too complicated or be a pinnacle of its genre (because that would require repeated attempts and a lot of sequels. not art, just crap to generate sales obviously). It can't be too "game-y" with lots of scoring and numbers and floating weapon upgrades. And it certainly can't be made by a huge development team, because how could anyone pick out the genius? It's simply another game churned out by the corporate machine to appeal to the masses.
At least that's my cynical viewpoint in general.
All that to say, Another World is an important game; it's still great today. I also felt the "genius underdog" angle of Chahi was a little too prominent-- the guy's a one-hit wonder compared to the many actual prolific developers-- but I enjoyed reading the behind-the-scenes type stuff. The author definitely knows a lot about the game's history, perfect for this kind of site.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Dec 6, 2010 0:32:24 GMT -5
What irritates me is that a lot of the so-called art games are called art just based on their particular content. They're usually games with simpler graphics, quieter music (preferring ambiance), less focus on instigating violence (and if you do, it's questioned in the story), and the mechanics are often stripped to the bare minimum if it fits into an established genre. Bonus points if it's made by ONE person or a small development team, because then its easier to pick out one or two people to worship and emphasize how awesome they are for doing everything themselves. Because smaller staffs tend to be more devoted. When people put a lot of heart into something (and I'm not just talking effort here) with minimal resources at their disposal, it tends to show in the work. That's why most contemporary films that are considered works of art are independent films. There is a certain amount of soul that is lost even in the most poignant Hollywood-type films. And yes, minimalism is definitely a virtue in a lot of cases. Art is pure and unified, and there's a negative correlation between purity & unity and extravagance. Again, this is why independent films strike people much more than Hollywood. There are plenty of games that try to turn the elements you listed above into a commodity. Check XBLA Indie Games some time. There's a ton of horrible games that try to ape "art" games like Braid and Limbo. Even though they capture the ideals of those games, they're not as good. And they're not worse off simply because they're copies, they're worse off because of the intent behind their use of those elements. If God of War started using minimalist music and ambiance and Kratos became more adverse to violence, God of War wouldn't suddenly become more artistic. It's not WHAT is done, but HOW and WHY, and that's what separates a game that simply includes the elements you listed above and a game that could possibly be considered art.
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Post by Atma on Dec 6, 2010 1:17:13 GMT -5
I had no idea what this game was until this topic came up. This topic is insane. All I'm going to say is Spoilers: Art is entirely subjective.
However, arguments like this make me want to try games like this and see what they do for me. Also, I like the language used in the article. It's quite good. Descriptive language and metaphors rule and engage me a lot more than a base overview.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Dec 6, 2010 2:05:37 GMT -5
I had no idea what this game was until this topic came up. This topic is insane. All I'm going to say is Spoilers: Art is entirely subjective. However, arguments like this make me want to try games like this and see what they do for me. I feel pretty much the same way. I think art is something that should be divisive, not universally embraced. "Art" games like Braid and Shadow of the Colossus get acclaim, but they also have some really strong dissenters, and I always find that more interesting than wholesale worship.
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Post by wyrdwad on Dec 6, 2010 4:17:34 GMT -5
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that absolutely everyone should embrace OoTW as art -- just as I don't personally embrace Ico as art, I can fully understand why some would not consider OoTW a work of art in any way.
I'm only arguing that (A) there's nothing wrong with identifying OoTW as art, (B) no one is stupid for thinking OoTW a more artistic game than Super Metroid or Castlevania IV, as that's just an opinion, and (C) writing about the game using flowery language is not pretentious or wrong in any way.
-Tom
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Post by Weasel on Dec 6, 2010 7:34:48 GMT -5
writing about the game using flowery language is not pretentious or wrong in any way. -Tom Anybody can write a "review." It takes a talented writer to write an "analysis" like this one.
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