Skygunner

[Discoalucard]

hg101.kontek.net/skygunner/skygunner.htm

I remember in the early days of the PS2 when pretty much everything was garbage (a perception largely fueled by my devotion to the Dreamcast), this was one of the few games that seemed pretty worthwhile. It is, too! It's got a great style and is quite a bit of fun to play. Unlike a lot of obscure Atlus stuff it can be found pretty cheaply too.

We had also covered Gunners Heart, a doujin spinoff of this game, several years back. It had been brought out in France by a company called DHM Interactive. What I didn't know is that this version is available through DD on GamersGate. I haven't grabbed it to check out the translation, but that's pretty neat!

[dire51]

I remember looking at the box for this in Gamestop. Always wanted to pick it up but never did, and now I'm kind of regretting it.

[Narushima]

It's funny how often japanese developers use French words to name their characters. La Pucelle tactics was especially hilarious in that regard (the name is in itself astonishing).

On that, and regarding Skygunner, I'd say that Copain is closer to "buddy" than simply "friend", and Poulets is "Chickens", not really baby ones.

[Sketcz-1000]

I was just copying verbatim what the manual's translation table stated. Which in itself is neat (a translation table!). My French ability is non-existent. I've lived here for around 8 years, and I've now given up trying to absorb the language through osmosis. It just doesn't happen.

[Narushima]

You should have kept trying. Perfect fluency is effective on the first day of the 9th year !
Now you have to start all over again.

[roushimsx]

I really don't understand the unabashed love for Skygunner and how easily its fans glaze over its controls. It's a game that seems like it would perfectly appeal to me (especially with the theme and art style), but the controls are so unwieldy and horrible that it's earned as position as one of the most disappointing games in my entire PS2 collection. A more conventional control option would have greatly benefited the game.

One of these days I'd like to put some effort into struggling with its controls just to grab some killer wallpapers in PCSX2. Absolutely gorgeous game.

[Discoalucard]

I had severe problems with PCSX2 getting it to run without incredible amounts of interlacing, no matter what my settings were. Some of the pics were taken with an emulator here, though most were press screens. If you look closely you should be able to see the difference.

[Sketcz-1000]

Dec 23, 2011 23:27:37 GMT -5 roushimsx said:

I really don't understand the unabashed love for Skygunner and how easily its fans glaze over its controls. It's a game that seems like it would perfectly appeal to me, but the controls are so unwieldy and horrible that it's earned as position as one of the most disappointing games in my entire PS2 collection. A more conventional control option would have greatly benefited the game.

Really? I had trouble at first, but then I switched to Simplified and it was perfect. I think I also disabled the invert option, so it played more like a straight on-rails shooter.

Controls and slowdown are the two biggest complaints I've read about for this game, but both are optional/selectable. Seriously, switch to Simplified and it controls really well. Your plane will move in whatever direction you push the analogue stick - also, one of the buttons will lock the camera behind the plane. You can have the camera focus on whatever enemy you've locked on to, or it can be manually forced to stay behind the plane, for easier flying.

Give it a second chance and try customising the controls - they're honestly pretty good!

[Gendo Ikari]

I know the articles here are often written by huge fans of the games covered but here, the gushing is really too much, reaching the excess when lambasting complaints at the time, entering outright fanboy territory. The result is an article about a game I might really love (setting, art style and gameplay seem a match made in heaven, and I also liked Gunners Heart while not knowing its connection), but that ends feeling not completely trustworthy to me. I know it's paradoxycal but I feel the piece paints the game "too perfect". Generally, I feel articles here strike a balance between passion and objectivity, but this time the balance has been tipped on the former.

[cj iwakura]

I liked the game, but I didn't think it was THAT good either.

Still, it's certainly unique.

[Sketcz-1000]

Dec 26, 2011 15:56:21 GMT -5 Gendo Ikari said:

I know the articles here are often written by huge fans of the games covered but here, the gushing is really too much, reaching the excess when lambasting complaints at the time, entering outright fanboy territory. The result is an article about a game I might really love, but that ends feeling not completely trustworthy to me. I know it's paradoxycal but I feel the piece paints the game "too perfect". Generally, I feel articles here strike a balance between passion and objectivity, but this time the balance has been tipped on the former.

Hold on. Are you admitting that you’ve never played the game, and therefore are not capable of making valid commentary on the quality of said game or indeed anyone else’s commentary about the game, but are still criticising the article because it doesn’t contain enough counter-balancing criticism to adhere to your standards of how a “review” should be written?

Several points:

* HG101 seldom does traditional reviews. Notice how there’s no score given? We mainly cover older games long after they’ve ceased being economically relevant. This isn’t about whether you should drop $60 on a new purchase, it’s about people who like an old game enough to play and write about it and encourage other connoisseurs of older titles to try it.

* Something I loathe with modern reviews is the template of: “It’s good, good, good, but having said that there’s also bad and bad”. Such reviews are a list of good points arbitrarily counterweighted with a few negatives. As if doing this somehow proves they’re being objective. And you know, I am guilty of writing those myself. They’re easy to do.

* I’m not going to apologise about praising this game. After Siren 2 it is my favourite game on the PS2 (slightly above Sky Odyssey, if you’re curious about my top 3). In my collection it represents a high point for PS2 gaming, and I’ve played dozens if not over 100 PS2 games over the last decade.

* What negatives are there with Skygunner, which you are implying I am withholding from the readership? To me it is pretty much perfect – in as much as what it sets out to do and in the context of the PS2’s library. The main complaints I’ve read are slowdown and controls. The framerate can be locked with the code, thereby negating that complaint entirely. As for controls, if you switch to “Novice Controls” when you start the game, it’s no more complicated than the free-roaming stages in Starfox 64. In fact the original review went to great lengths stating these two facts, because that's what all the reviewers back in the day whined on and on and one about, incessantly. It was toned for the final piece, but seriously, the two biggest complaints people have with this game are OPTIONAL and can be toggled OFF.

Otherwise it’s a game which is expertly, lovingly and ingeniously designed. Each difficulty level is represented by a different character with entirely different play styles and sometimes stages too. This is not some generic “make it tougher” difficulty option, it’s like 3-games-in-1. Also, several stages have secondary objectives, which I forgot to mention in the article: for example you can acquire a special engine by meeting certain requirements in one stage. Plus it offers a decent amount of post-game content, in the form of two extra characters with unique missions. You can also collect Sepia photographs if you’re inclined, by enacting special events (ie: getting shot down by a specific boss - which is cool, because even in failure you're rewarded).

If you’re a casual player you can try the easy difficulty, enjoy the story and leave it there. If you’re hardcore you can clock higher difficulty levels and compete for the online ranking boards (well, you could back in the day). The graphics are really good for a PS2 game, more so if you consider it’s a fairly early PS2 game. The sound likewise.


You seem to be confusing blinkered fanboyism with genuine, reflected consideration and praise. I bought this game when it came out – I imported it online, because I lived in the UK. I had a Messiah chipped PS2 and I loved it back then. Over the next decade I’ve replayed it several times and when playing it recently I’ve concluded it is still one of the finest titles on the system. Are there other better PS2 games? Well, yes, there are games that are technically more impressive (Okami for example), or perhaps more immersive or cleverer with their design (Siren 2's light/dark stucture is incredible), but for me Skygunner still stands among a small collection of PS2 titles which I will always enjoy and recommend to people.

My motivation with the article was that I was genuinely concerned it will be forgotten. If you think my writing is untruthful, then just pirate it. It's not a new game, so it's not like you're denying the publisher money. Skygunner deserves to be played.

[Gendo Ikari]

"If you think my writing is untruthful, then just pirate it". Why? I trust your article enough to see that Skygunner is a great game, which also seems tailored to my tastes. But some points like the reviewers at the time that "should be punched in the face" still sound to me like, in your love of the game, you want anyone to like it as yourself ("What the West needs to understand..."), no other option given. That framerate thing is *in a secret menu*, why didn't they put it as a regular option? Should the developers be criticized as well, for exposing the game to unfair criticisms?

* HG101 seldom does traditional reviews. Notice how there’s no score given? We mainly cover older games long after they’ve ceased being economically relevant. This isn’t about whether you should drop $60 on a new purchase, it’s about people who like an old game enough to play and write about it and encourage other connoisseurs of older titles to try it.

I never touched this point and, for the record, I'm really glad there aren't numerical votes here (some time ago an Italian site asked me to write about indie games for them, and I'm still undecided after seeing that they use votes).

I see your point but I still stand to mine: other articles here, even in the greatest praise, still sound more objective to me (and not because they have to forcefully point flaws out, if that was your question) - else, I wouldn't have commented here. However, the term "fanboy" was really excessive, and I make my excuses for that.

I don't think I have more to add, but only because I don't see something we will both agree on here. Anyway, thanks for exposing your point thoroughly

No, wait, while I was finishing writing I question sprang to my mind: was Skygunner successful *in Japan*?

[Discoalucard]

Dec 27, 2011 7:12:55 GMT -5 Gendo Ikari said:

That framerate thing is *in a secret menu*, why didn't they put it as a regular option?

I think it stems from the same reason that console games rarely offer performance options like v-sync - there's a phobia that most gamers won't "understand" such technical options and thus don't include them. Skygunner's solution was to hide it away in a secret menu, although I do think it was mentioned in the manual.

Also, it was only added for the NA release, so maybe that was the only way to append it to a menu.

[Sketcz-1000]

Dec 27, 2011 7:12:55 GMT -5 Gendo Ikari said:

Some points like the reviewers at the time that "should be punched in the face" still sound to me like, in your love of the game, you want anyone to like it as yourself ("What the West needs to understand..."), no other option given.

Haha, that punching people in the face thing was intended to be a serious point masquerading as humour. I thought it was silly that reviewers back in the day marked it down for something that could be disabled. Actually, the original draft had a lot more on the subject.

Original paragraph:

Of course most reviewers at the time bitched incessantly about the slowdown, which is a curious psychological problem for most Western gamers. Another good example is <i>Deathsmiles</i>, which when brought over had the intentional slowdown removed by its American publisher, thereby making certain areas impossible. Only later did they realise their mistake, promising to reinstate it with a patch. What the West needs to understand, is that slowdown can be a powerful design mechanic and rather cool if implemented well. For the record, if you dislike the slowdown in <i>Skygunner</i> you can permanently lock the frame rate using a secret options menu. Which means every reviewer back in the day who marked the score down because of this deserves a punch in the face. <b>It is optional</b>. To unlock Uniform Processing Mode input the following on the title screen: Up, Triangle, Left, Circle, Down, X, Right, Square.

I personally have strong feelings about slowdown: it really doesn't bother me and in many games it's useful. Bagai-O is another game which benefits from slowdown during hectic moments.

The fact reviewers in EGM and other places marked it down for this, and listed it in their "negatives" box in various mag reviews, really irks me. And it does seem to be a problem specific to the west, as highlighted by the Deathsmiles debacle where they had to patch the slowdown BACK INTO the US release. There seems to be a perception among gamers and the press in America and Europe that unless it's tied to a bullet-time button, any slowdown in gameplay is automatically an extremely bad thing. Do the Japanese think otherwise? I had no idea, but Skygunner and Deathsmiles both implement it on purpose, and I think Bagai-O also intentionally uses it (maybe), implying that they are more receptive to the idea in Japan.

Is the developer at fault for hiding such options away? Absolutely. It cost them sales, I am certain. They are also guilty of poor control naming. When I first played I selected Expert difficulty, because Novice difficulty sounded like it must be for idiots (I'm no novice! I cried). When in fact it should have been called Normal controls and Crap controls, because Expert is uncontrollable (yaw is controlled with the L/R buttons, while left/right on the stick just rotates you on the spot and you have to pull up to go in a specific direction - it's unusable). Viewtiful Joe suffered the same problem with Kids and Adult mode naming - in reality it was Normal and Super Difficult.

[Ike]

I have an extra copy of this game if anybody's interested. It doesn't have a manual but it has the box and disc in good shape.