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Post by Discoalucard on Nov 30, 2012 16:49:40 GMT -5
1up and EGM pretty much shared the same staff and background, so I doubt they misnamed their own magazine. Yeah but Chris Kohler wrote this piece as a freelancer. As far as I know he's never actually worked for 1UP/EGM. It's an easy mistake to make. Maybe there's some reference to this in his book, Power Up? My copy's in storage unfortunately. |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Nov 30, 2012 18:54:56 GMT -5
Chris Kohler has a bad habit of not doing his research and spreading misinformation as fact. He once called Shenmue the first sandbox game ever, despite the fact that a) it barely qualifies as one and b) there are sandbox games that preceded it. He also said Donkey Kong was the first game with a story.
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Post by ReyVGM on Nov 30, 2012 20:51:13 GMT -5
Maybe it's already been mentioned now, but didn't Shigeru design how Donkey Kong was gonna look in DKC (pretty faithful to his original design) but then someone decided that DK needed a "cooler" look, and they scrapped Shigerus version altogether? Something like that. I could see him getting annoyed by that. But I could also see other people THINKING that he would be annoyed by that. I've never heard about that, but things get scrapped all the time in game development. I don't think Miyamoto is the kind of guy to hold a grudge over that for the simple fact that he had enough power to enforce his views on the game if he wanted to. |
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Post by roushimsx on Nov 30, 2012 21:20:18 GMT -5
ok, found the source of the quote. G4 Icons Season 3 Episode 8 - Donkey Kong (from 2004). Skip to 11:48 for the part where the discussion about Donkey Kong Country starts. At 14:05 Steven Kent (who did write for Electronic Games along with Next Generation and Computer Entertainment News) talks first hand about it occurring during an interview he had with both Shigeru Miyamoto and Tim Stamper and Miyamoto was apparently ruthless (and uttered the famous quote). So maybe there's something documented in Next Generation? Either way, I'm pretty ok with the video of the actual interviewer talking about it first hand! Unexpected source there, really didn't think it'd turn up in a G4 video of all places (and I had to suffer through the awful Miyamoto episode beforehand...i dare you to attempt to watch it). |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Nov 30, 2012 22:18:48 GMT -5
Hello, all! Longtime lurker, first time poster. I actually signed up to post the above video since that was the first time I had ever heard of Miyamoto criticizing DKC, but someone beat me to it! However, I can add that Kent also references the interview in his book The Ultimate History of Video Games on page 518 in a lengthy footnote. He wrote as follows: * An interesting story lies behind Yoshi's Island. When Shigeru Miyamoto first demonstrated the game to Nintendo's marketing department, it was rejected because it had Mario-related graphics rather than the waxy, prerendered graphics of Donkey Kong Country. Rather than change to an artistic look he did not like, Miyamoto made the game even more cartoon-like, giving it a hand-drawn look. The second version was accepted
Miyamoto, who is rightfully proud of his work, was offended that the first version was rejected. That same month, I interviewed Miyamoto and Tim Stamper, creator of Donkey Kong Country, together and noticed that Miyamoto was a bit hard on Stamper, making such statements as "Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good."
In a later interview, Miyamoto admitted that Yoshi's Island had been a touchy subject at the time:
I think that it happened after Donkey Kong Country was introduced. In comparison with the graphics of the Super Donkey Kong, there was not enough punch to Yoshi's Island. That was what I was told by the marketing people.
I intensified my hand-drawn touch on Yoshi's Island from the initial part of the program. Everybody else was saying that they wanted better hardware and more beautiful graphics instead of this art.
Even while I was working on the Super Mario World, I was thinking that the next hero should be Yoshi. Other people have created games based upon Yoshi. . . . Yoshi's World Hunters, Yoshi's Egg, Yoshi's Cookie, and so forth--games that I don't really like. So I decided that I should make an authentic Yoshi game. Maybe it was simply the case that Miyamoto originally held a grudge against DKC due to circumstances, but has softened towards it in recent years. After all, it was Miyamoto who wanted to bring the series back. |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Nov 30, 2012 22:30:17 GMT -5
Either way, I'm pretty ok with the video of the actual interviewer talking about it first hand! Unexpected source there, really didn't think it'd turn up in a G4 video of all places (and I had to suffer through the awful Miyamoto episode beforehand...i dare you to attempt to watch it). G4 Icons was pretty damn awful. |
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Post by roushimsx on Nov 30, 2012 23:13:51 GMT -5
However, I can add that Kent also references the interview in his book The Ultimate History of Video Games on page 518 in a lengthy footnote. Bless you <3 The timing on the interview is a little weird, because it was either it was right before the release of DKC or right after the release of Yoshi's Island according to Kent's website. oh well, i'm not letting this stack go to waste. I'm going to get caught up on what's going on in 1995! G4 Icons was pretty damn awful. I really didn't remember it being bad, but I had to force myself through that video. I guess doing what it tried to do a decade ago earns it some credit, but it really hasn't aged well in the slightest, especially with the problems of showing incorrect or improper game footage and an absence of much depth. |
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Post by Super Orbus on Dec 1, 2012 0:23:44 GMT -5
It sounds like he was just having a bad day. And in his defense, DKC gameplay is pretty mediocre. Having been involved in the project doesn't necessarily mean he was totally satisfied with the result. It was still Rare's baby. But it's possible to have more complex feelings about a project than just black and white love/hate. Also... who cares?  |
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Dec 1, 2012 11:51:24 GMT -5
Also... who cares? Obviously you do, because you took the time to read most of this thread and write a reply.  |
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Post by ReyVGM on Dec 1, 2012 14:31:15 GMT -5
I still don't think Miyamoto said that. At least not that way. It's not typical for a Japanese person to badmouth other people's work, and much less right in front of them.
He either used different words or the translation was sensationalized.
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Post by derboo on Dec 1, 2012 17:12:45 GMT -5
That's always the danger when non-Japanese interview Japanese. I remember one dubbed interview with Itagaki where he was talking in a normal voice, and they gave him 'tude in the dub, presumably just because he was Itagaki.
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Dec 1, 2012 19:46:49 GMT -5
I hate it when they dub interviews. Give your viewers some credibility and subtitle the damn thing. If your viewers are seeking out interviews to begin with then I'm sure they're smart enough to read subtitles.
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Post by vnisanian2001 on Dec 1, 2012 22:12:02 GMT -5
It sounds like he was just having a bad day. And in his defense, DKC gameplay is pretty mediocre. Having been involved in the project doesn't necessarily mean he was totally satisfied with the result. It was still Rare's baby. But it's possible to have more complex feelings about a project than just black and white love/hate. Also... who cares? As I said earlier in this thread, I love the trilogy. In fact, 2 and 3 are way better than 1. |
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Post by ReyVGM on Dec 1, 2012 22:34:10 GMT -5
If Kiddy Kong wouldn't have existed, DKC3 would have been received much more favorably.
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Post by Super Orbus on Dec 2, 2012 0:32:49 GMT -5
It sounds like he was just having a bad day. And in his defense, DKC gameplay is pretty mediocre. Having been involved in the project doesn't necessarily mean he was totally satisfied with the result. It was still Rare's baby. But it's possible to have more complex feelings about a project than just black and white love/hate. Also... who cares? As I said earlier in this thread, I love the trilogy. In fact, 2 and 3 are way better than 1. I more meant, who cares what Miyamoto thinks? His opinion does not invalidate your own. |
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