Game Club 199X #18 - Home Improvement (SNES)

[Deleted]

This all kind of feels like cheating to me. How is this any different from save stating? You're playing the game in a manner different from what its retail release allows. It definitely seems an order of magnitude worse than using a simple guide to get through a tough spot.

That isn't to say that the changes being made to this particular game are bad. Quite the opposite, they improve the experience dramatically. I just think that going forward, the rules should be revised. Basically, if you're going to allow straight out hacking of a game, you really shouldn't have any restrictions on how someone chooses to play.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to play through it with the hack, because I want to be able to say that this game is complete and utter shit to play the way it was put together.

That being said, I think what ryusui did is awesome, and if he could take it a step farther and make the enemies less tedious to kill it would be well beyond a boon to mankind.

Secondly, this basically an April Fool's game, so I won't complain if people bend the rules this time.

[Bobinator]

The thing is, barely any of us could get past the first few stages without this hack, and unmodified, it's really not that fun to play. Definitely not fun enough to try to play through, even with how many save states you need. It was either we do this, or we keep the podcast centered around what we actually managed to see, which for most of us, is the first three levels. I mean, I can understand what you're saying, but if it means we get a more interesting podcast out of it, I'd say that's what matters in the long run.

[roushimsx]

Apr 10, 2013 19:50:44 GMT -5 Bobinator said:

I mean, I can understand what you're saying, but if it means we get a more interesting podcast out of it, I'd say that's what matters in the long run.

To this end, I think y'all should dump the requirement of "no save states, no faqs, no hacks". Play by your own methods and express why you chose to play in a particular fashion during the podcast. It could make for some interesting discussions about how to mitigate design deficiencies with modern alternative solutions.

The hack is a slick idea, but we have all of one or two people here capable of generating that kind of stuff, and even then only on a limited basis. If we're reliant on them to make the shitty games fun (and this game is a royal piece of worthless shit), then maybe there should be either a bit more care put into selecting the available titles or the expectations for what you hope to achieve with the podcast should be dialed back to suit the quality of the games being played.

tl;dr - Home Improvement is an unredeemable pile of shit without extensive hacking and I can't wait til May.

[Snarboo]

There are a couple reasons this hack was initiated:

1. The game was chosen as a joke.
2. Given we only play one or two games a month, and nobody was having fun with this one, drastic measures needed to be taken to make this game more fun for everyone involved.

I think there is value in approaching a game the way it was intended to be played, and I think GC9X has worked very well in that regard. However, when the game chosen refuses to be played, I think fucking around a bit can be just as fun. Given the conditions for this month's challenge (April Fool's), I'm willing to bend the rules a bit given the game isn't fun enough on its own for us to really bother playing it the right way. Odds are good we won't do this sort of thing again, so might as well savor it while we can.

I'm going to let xerxes chime in on this one before I say anything else.

[kal]

The rules exist for the games to be experienced largely how they were intended to be experienced. Home Improvement is not protected by those rules because it is vomit garbage. The hack is an attempt to salvage something playable out of the mess but the podcast will still presumably focus on the original unaltered game. In essence the hacked version is for people who want a more forgiving experience on a game for which there is no mercy to be found.

Save States and the like allow you to completely control your experience which fundamentally changes the experience of the games in question. So far the hacked version is more of an improved version of HI which could easily have been released INSTEAD of the travesty that came from the time period - it does not allow you to blindly brute force your way through as States and Invincibility can.

[Deleted]

That's really splitting hairs. I think it's perfectly fine to alter this game in the ways that people have proposed, but to say this is any more moral than save stating is hypocritical.

[susanismyalias]

I think it's kind of in the spirit of the game of the month, because they're looking at what the game did wrong, and seeing how to fix them. It's far more critical than savestating.

[xerxes]

Apr 10, 2013 19:42:27 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

This all kind of feels like cheating to me.

Me too!

Apr 10, 2013 19:42:27 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

How is this any different from save stating? You're playing the game in a manner different from what its retail release allows.

Well, it's different from save-stating because it's not save-stating. Allowing ourselves to inch our way through Home Improvement, frame by frame if we have to, is a tad different than allowing ourselves infinite continues, or four lives per continue instead of three, don't you think?

Apr 10, 2013 19:42:27 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

I just think that going forward, the rules should be revised. Basically, if you're going to allow straight out hacking of a game, you really shouldn't have any restrictions on how someone chooses to play.

People can't custom-hack the game. The one hack that results from this is, in effect, this month's one true game. The point of GC9X is to play hard/confusing games as a group. We're all in this together, etc. A key aspect of that is that everyone plays by the same rules. If we removed all restrictions, then everyone plays by their own rules. Nobody really needs to work together to finish it.

I appreciate your input, but this is probably the only clever idea I'll have all year and I'm sticking to it.

Apr 10, 2013 20:26:25 GMT -5 Snarboo said:

Given the conditions for this month's challenge (April Fool's), I'm willing to bend the rules a bit given the game isn't fun enough on its own for us to really bother playing it the right way. Odds are good we won't do this sort of thing again, so might as well savor it while we can.

Also, that. I don't expect this to happen again under normal circumstances.

[kal]

In essence games often have two key elements that add up to the difficult (particularly games of this period) Memorization and Execution. First you must learn the levels, then you must complete the required tasks to beat them. Home Improvement has large, confusing levels with extremely sloppy controls therefore it's difficult is rather high. Increasing the number of continues/lives means the player still has to complete the levels on the games terms (more or less) but with unlimited continues you don't have to repeat the ENTIRE game for screwing up in the third world but you still have to complete a level set within the constraints of the game. Save states throw that all away, you require only the ability to complete every element of the game exactly one time to win - making it less of a game and more of slightly taxing film.

[Scylla]

I don't plan to play through Home Improvement hacked or unhacked, haha, but I think making a Home Improve(d)ment is a brilliant idea and you have my support.

[Deleted]

Ninja Gaiden III had only five continues. It was an incredibly poor design choice, considering the previous two games gave you, as Zete from Battlefield Earth would say, "endless options for renewal." It really sucked balls having to replay the entire damn game just because you ran out of continues on the final boss, but those were the breaks back then.

Really, my concerns are twofold. First, I see no moral difference here from save-stating, since you're making a game easier to play than its original retail release allows. Second, this was a terrible game to choose, so if you're going to stand by your guns and say this is definitely the April game, then put your big boy pants on and beat it legitimately.

Also, I might be just the slightest bit bitter about having beaten this game on its own terms several years ago, after Something Awful did a piece on it.

[Feynman]

Apr 10, 2013 19:27:11 GMT -5 Ryusui said:

I'm actually pretty sure #8 on that list would be pretty easy, if "story adjustments" means "tweak some of the dialogue."

Also, 'bout "more sensible control scheme." What's the control scheme like now, and what should it look like? Because that's actually not a hard thing to tweak. :3

The controls are currently set up as follows:

A - attack
B - jump
Y - run
X - grappling hook
L & R - attack diagonally while standing still

Unfortunately, this control scheme is a nightmare. The game often requires you to jump and grapple at the same time, yet using both buttons at once is almost impossible. It gets even worse when you need to run at the same time as well. In general the controls are just kind of awkward because all of the button commands are in unusual and impractical locations. Trying to juggle three face buttons at once just to cross a pit sucks.

A better setup would be:

A&X - attack diagonally while standing
B - jump
Y - attack
L - grappling hook
R - run

This control layout allows players to easily hit every command at once comfortably.

[Deleted]

It's never too late for Tekwar.

[Snarboo]

Apr 10, 2013 22:17:15 GMT -5 @jasonx said:

Also, I might be just the slightest bit bitter about having beaten this game on its own terms several years ago, after Something Awful did a piece on it.

Do you have any tips from this experience? I'm curious how you managed to beat this game on its own terms given how frustrating it is to play. I'm generally pretty good at games, and even this is making me say "Fuck this".

Edit:

Apr 10, 2013 22:27:56 GMT -5 Feynman said:

A&X - attack diagonally while standing
B - jump
Y - attack
L - grappling hook
R - run

This was basically my idea for the control scheme, although I'd swap run to L and the grappling hook to R.