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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 23, 2013 9:15:45 GMT -5
yep, converting isometric bitmap backgrounds into proper stereoscopic 3D seems like it must be a b*tch. The SOR effect is quite unique. It made me thinkof the treatment applied to Twin Bee 3D Classic's conversion, with it's mountains standing up like a domino on a flat surface; but as soon as you play it, yourealize it's something else entirely.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 24, 2013 4:35:06 GMT -5
I heard the SoR1 port had some kind of option for a differently arranged soundtrack (maybe a different kind of synth, I don't know); can anyone confirm this? All of the Genesis port includes the ability to choose music from Model 1 or Model 2 Genesis systems, since they had slightly different sound chips. The Genesis 2 is slightly worse, it's just for authenticity. Also, according to the interview, Streets of Rage was chosen over its sequel because it has some vertically scrolling segments, and M2 found it difficult to get those parts working correctly. SOR1 only scrolls horizontally so they don't run into that problem. It's really amazing the way SOR looks anyway. Most of the other Genesis games just assign depth to different background layers. This one assigns slightly different depth values to each scanline on the ground, so the whole playing field has a slight 3D effect. It looks amazing. I ended up getting it anyway because of the Best Buy eshop card sale this week and wanting to support this series. I was surprised at how cool that effect was too, it's like the ground is "tilted" rather than a series of cards offset from each other. It's still a shame they couldn't get SOR2 running (and probably won't be able to get that one running unless they figure out something clever) instead because of how much better the game itself was. Nice tech demo though, and I hope the effect is used again.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 26, 2013 15:53:00 GMT -5
[quote author=" Joseph Joestar" It's still a shame they couldn't get SOR2 running (and probably won't be able to get that one running unless they figure out something clever) instead because of how much better the game itself was. Nice tech demo though, and I hope the effect is used again. [/quote] (The science of quotations eludes me.) I feel more enthusiastic than you about SOR 3d, Joe: come on, we have a pretty good retro game to go with that tech demo! I have to admit that it is more than probable that I would never have had fun with SOR 1 again without this perfect take on the game. Actually I had bought it on Ipad, more or less to have the music select feature (Don't tell me that soundtrack is not worth a buck!); and of course I tried to play it and stopped after 30 seconds (I know it was an IOS port, so it's partially on me, but still. Konami's emulated X-Men arcade beat them up is fun to play on Ipad even without buttons...). M2 really resurrected a dead game from which nothing was expected anymore. It's because of unexpected misadventure that we got to see SOR1 get a second chance no-one wanted to give it initially., and I'm very happily impressed, because it truly was a new experience, playing that 3D version, since I had forgotten a lot about the game. That being said, yes it is strikingly weaker than SOR2, and 3 gameplay wise. It is a much simpler game (although it is not fundamentally more repetitive than SOR2 (a LOT os SOR 2 is tapping twice to the left or the right then press the punch button. Cool super move, but maybe a bit too proeminent in that game). But anyway that's the way I'd rationalize my acquisition, apart from "it's damn fun": whereas we all know SOR2 by heart, it is cool to rediscover the prequel everybody had forgotten after 2 & 3. Because the game plays well, with a different flow which is perfectly good in its own way, and remains damn fun. So in the end, M2 still did good by SEGA. After all, if new players are curious enough of retro games that they are willing to invest 6 bucks in NES games like Donkey Kong - which is totally OK if they can afford building a NES collection with the Virtual Console - then it's cool to start SEGA's retro shop with older MD games. (apart from Super Shinobi 2). This SEGA 3D collection's best aspect on the MD games' side, is the way each title is so well done, that even Altered Beast is fun to play once again, once in a while.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 27, 2013 13:38:40 GMT -5
(A Link between worlds) is probably one of most spectacular uses of 3D on the system! I kind of feel sorry for the people who don't get on with 3D or won't try it. Also, this gives a M2 a way to technically accomplish overhead 3D for helicopter view Mega Drive games like Beyond Oasis or Phantasy Star, though it might be tricky with sprites to make everything slant diagonally like they do in this game. I was thinking about that. I'm really hoping for an RPG in the next Mega Drive conversions. A 3D enhanced PS4 or better yet Shining Force, if they are as cheap as the first batch is, would be almost too good a competition against the lesser new RPGs on the machine. If M2 release a 3D collection Phantasy Star 4 (1 would be awesome, too!), they will have the game that gives you the most bang for your buck in the e-shop, more or less. And what about the next round of arcade games conversions? After all, they are most probably the killer apps of this collection. Space Harrier, Super Hang-On, Galaxy Force II, they are all incredible, and pack much, much more replay value than what their reputation says. We know that After Burner 2 should obviously be released in the West - hopefully not next december. I'd kill for a 3D collection Out Runners, even though it seems unbelievable that the hardware could handle it. AB Cop would deserve to finally be available outside of arcades. It was an awesome Chase HQ spin-off, SEGA style... I love Power Drift, but with that game, I'm pretty sure even I would not stand using the3D effect. Of course it is hard to believe Out Run is not coming. Out Run converted by M2, with wide-screen 3D and accelerometer controls for 6 bucks? I'm sure it would sell at least a super-million. It is SEGA's super-scaler masterpiece. No other super-scaler made people drool this way. The graphics, the animation, were soo much better than any other game at the time! Not releasing it would be madness (and therefore pretty SEGA...). In the end, those super-scaler games are plentiful, even more so if you include gun games (mmmh.. Alien 3...); and of course SEGA has a huge catalog of 2D games in so many genres... Revenge of Black Adder, mmmhh... What are you hoping to see ported next? The Shinobi arcade game? Rad Racer? Super Monaco GP? I really hope M2 continue converting arcade games, and don't release almost only MD games. If they can bring us the same quality, 3 arcade games is already a lot. And this is useless daydreaming, but Thunder Force IV would look so good in wide-sxreen 3D... nice dream.
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Post by moran on Dec 27, 2013 14:06:08 GMT -5
Strider would be a great 3D port. The battle scenes of Shining Force would look beautiful. I agree with you on Out Run. It would be such a good port. Or maybe just give us Flicky and call it a day.
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Post by Yukito on Dec 27, 2013 14:11:17 GMT -5
I think if they are going to do a Mega Drive RPG or strategy game, they better get a move on. Final Fantasy, Esper Dream and Metal Max are already on the virtual console and M2 has already ported all the Game Gear Shining Force games and three other RPG/strategy titles for the Game Gear. The retro lineup of classic RPGs is slowly starting to fill out and it's only a matter of time before the addition of PC Engine titles start to make it saturate. If M2 could get one in before Square gets in the original Seiken Densetsu or Saga games then, that would be a marvelous boon for its sales.
As for what is coming after Afterburner II, I'm rather positive we can expect at least Outrun, Fantasy Zone and Sonic 2. Unless M2's got more magic in their fingers than any of us could deem possible, Outrunners and Revenge of Black Adder seem out of the question. The only way I could see those working is as a complete port from the ground up, not an emulation.
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Post by Allie on Dec 27, 2013 14:30:53 GMT -5
I think if they are going to do a Mega Drive RPG or strategy game, they better get a move on. Final Fantasy, Esper Dream and Metal Max are already on the virtual console and M2 has already ported all the Game Gear Shining Force games and three other RPG/strategy titles for the Game Gear. The retro lineup of classic RPGs is slowly starting to fill out and it's only a matter of time before the addition of PC Engine titles start to make it saturate. If M2 could get one in before Square gets in the original Seiken Densetsu or Saga games then, that would be a marvelous boon for its sales. As for what is coming after Afterburner II, I'm rather positive we can expect at least Outrun, Fantasy Zone and Sonic 2. Unless M2's got more magic in their fingers than any of us could deem possible, Outrunners and Revenge of Black Adder seem out of the question. The only way I could see those working is as a complete port from the ground up, not an emulation. Unfortunately, a significant portion of that content you mentioned will not ever be available to most of us, as we do not live in the JP region. And to that extent, I get the feeling if M2 were to do something like that, they'd pick a Japan exclusive game like King Colossus or Rent-A-Hero. Though I wonder how hard it would be to apply the effect to, say, Shining in the Darkness...
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Dec 27, 2013 17:12:55 GMT -5
I think if they are going to do a Mega Drive RPG or strategy game, they better get a move on. Final Fantasy, Esper Dream and Metal Max are already on the virtual console and M2 has already ported all the Game Gear Shining Force games and three other RPG/strategy titles for the Game Gear. The retro lineup of classic RPGs is slowly starting to fill out and it's only a matter of time before the addition of PC Engine titles start to make it saturate. If M2 could get one in before Square gets in the original Seiken Densetsu or Saga games then, that would be a marvelous boon for its sales. As for what is coming after Afterburner II, I'm rather positive we can expect at least Outrun, Fantasy Zone and Sonic 2. Unless M2's got more magic in their fingers than any of us could deem possible, Outrunners and Revenge of Black Adder seem out of the question. The only way I could see those working is as a complete port from the ground up, not an emulation. Unfortunately, a significant portion of that content you mentioned will not ever be available to most of us, as we do not live in the JP region. And to that extent, I get the feeling if M2 were to do something like that, they'd pick a Japan exclusive game like King Colossus or Rent-A-Hero. Though I wonder how hard it would be to apply the effect to, say, Shining in the Darkness... Also, nobody puts anywhere near the same level of effort into emulated games as M2 does.
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Post by Dee Liteyears on Dec 27, 2013 21:00:16 GMT -5
They are my greatest heros since the ReBirth series. Those people KNOW old games
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Post by Yukito on Dec 27, 2013 21:03:13 GMT -5
I was trying to demonstrate how Sega and M2 might be thinking about how to market the games. Their first goal is to get them successful in Japan and then localize them worldwide. Therefore, what's happening on the 3DS Japanese market is pretty important. Sega will, like always, be too stupid to notice what could happen if they don't catch a certain window, but M2 is pretty savvy. For instance, their release of Ecco the Dolphin was perfectly timed to take advantage of certain market advantages at the time and it worked.
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Post by Allie on Dec 27, 2013 21:40:46 GMT -5
I was trying to demonstrate how Sega and M2 might be thinking about how to market the games. Their first goal is to get them successful in Japan and then localize them worldwide. Therefore, what's happening on the 3DS Japanese market is pretty important. Sega will, like always, be too stupid to notice what could happen if they don't catch a certain window, but M2 is pretty savvy. For instance, their release of Ecco the Dolphin was perfectly timed to take advantage of certain market advantages at the time and it worked. It's not like we aren't aware that a Japanese company is going to think Japan first (and possibly only), with the rest of the world as an afterthought, but it's not any more reassuring to those of us on the neglected end of the fence.
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Post by Yukito on Dec 27, 2013 22:00:10 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, I'm just trying to speculate like you guys are.
I don't think a lot of them do think of rest of the world as an afterthought. I can't tell you how many times I've run into people who say, "We're falling behind compared to the rest of the world is doing, we have to get on their level!" There are times of course, where this is needed, but sometimes wish I could ask more Japanese people to stop looking so much at the rest of the world and trying to measure up, and just be themselves.
What's great about M2 is that they've got the passion to do whatever the hell they feel like doing regardless of what the world says is viable, but can then think about how to make it into a product. Their passion obviously helps sell their work. A lot of their PS2 games sold so much better than anyone would have expected too. Though I'm sure Sega does have some valuable input there. Obviously, they aren't as completely retarded as we tend to make them sound on message boards.
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Post by Colonel Kurtz on Dec 27, 2013 22:19:31 GMT -5
I was trying to demonstrate how Sega and M2 might be thinking about how to market the games. Their first goal is to get them successful in Japan and then localize them worldwide. Therefore, what's happening on the 3DS Japanese market is pretty important. Sega will, like always, be too stupid to notice what could happen if they don't catch a certain window, but M2 is pretty savvy. For instance, their release of Ecco the Dolphin was perfectly timed to take advantage of certain market advantages at the time and it worked. It's not like we aren't aware that a Japanese company is going to think Japan first (and possibly only), with the rest of the world as an afterthought, but it's not any more reassuring to those of us on the neglected end of the fence. SEGA were only successful in Japan with the saturn. All their other sucesses happened more or less around the world as decades passed and before the death of the Dreamcast. M2 ARE savvy enough to know that, and if this first batch of Sega 3d conversions sells well outside or Japan, everybody will win. I'm 100% sure the only reason M2 converted Altered Beast was for the american market. I'm pretty optimistic they will consider us gaijin when choosing thev next wave. After Burner 2 is nothing if not US/Europe-centric... well actually Japanese players seen to love this game a lot, too, by all accounts. So good choice M2. Uh... Surprise us!
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Post by Yukito on Dec 27, 2013 22:29:54 GMT -5
Ooooh, that just gave me a thought. Comix Zone and Landstalker in 3D. Mmmm...yes, please M2.
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Post by Allie on Dec 27, 2013 22:37:05 GMT -5
Ooooh, that just gave me a thought. Comix Zone and Landstalker in 3D. Mmmm...yes, please M2. Gunstar Heroes would be nice. I swear, no matter how many times Sega re-releases that game, I'll buy it every single time (not counting the Sega Ages version, since I don't have a modded PS2).
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