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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 7, 2015 2:14:39 GMT -5
After a close, last minute vote, the games for March are: ...and Over Horizon!  Ok, to set ground rules - are the other ports out for Steel Empire (GBA and 3ds)? I say we include em. |
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 7, 2015 2:37:14 GMT -5
Holy shit, $30 for Steel Empire... I'm mad I missed out on that sale, this is ridiculous.
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Post by Échalote on Mar 7, 2015 2:54:45 GMT -5
Holy shit, $30 for Steel Empire... I'm mad I missed out on that sale, this is ridiculous. lmfao, the megadrive version is cheaper. |
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 7, 2015 3:08:40 GMT -5
All versions of Steel Empire are legal! I've been meaning to try the GBA version myself, since it differs heavily from the Genesis version.
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Post by zerker on Mar 7, 2015 7:19:02 GMT -5
Just ordered the Genesis version here. Will join in the discussion when it arrives.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 8, 2015 17:23:47 GMT -5
Ok, I just started both games - a couple questions
Steel Empire:
Is there any reason to use the zeppelin? It feels like the only benefit is a sliver more health, but that's kind of pointless since the hitbox is much larger.
Over Horizon:
Has anyone figured out how the allocating points affects things in the weapon edit?
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 8, 2015 18:16:47 GMT -5
Steel Empire: Is there any reason to use the zeppelin? It feels like the only benefit is a sliver more health, but that's kind of pointless since the hitbox is much larger. Yes, actually! The trick with the Zeppelin is that it's best for stages that feature a lot of air combat, most notably stages 3, 5 and possibly 7. The extra health also helps on the first stage, since you often need the extra health right at the start. I used to play through the entire game as the Zeppelin, but eventually settled on playing as both since some levels favor ground combat and obstacles. As you progress through the game, both ships slowly receive health upgrades, too. The Striker eventually gets as much health as the Zeppelin had near the start, but the Zeppelin eventually receives enough health upgrades to tank anywhere from 10 to 20 direct hits, so keep that in mind. The entire game can be beaten as either ship, so it's up to you decide which you prefer! These rules may not apply to the GBA version, which has a very cramped screen. Over Horizon: Has anyone figured out how the allocating points affects things in the weapon edit? The weapon edit works like this: - Laser pierces enemies.
- Homing tracks enemies.
- Bomber explodes on enemies.
The trick with the weapon edit is that the each of the base weapons is the best in its categories, so a Laser with maxed out Homing still might not seek as well as a dedicated homing weapon. The best weapon combo I've found so far is Homing with 3 levels of Bomber, and 2 levels of Laser. This creates a weapon that homes in on enemies, explodes on contact, and occasionally pierces enemies. Most enemies cannot stand up to this, and the max upgrade for Homing makes it fire faster. |
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Post by Feynman on Mar 9, 2015 6:24:48 GMT -5
Steel Empire: Is there any reason to use the zeppelin? It feels like the only benefit is a sliver more health, but that's kind of pointless since the hitbox is much larger. No. The zeppelin sucks just as much as you think it does, so unless you want the extra challenge, just stick with the plane. |
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 9, 2015 18:09:29 GMT -5
Hey, I beg to differ! :p Might have to stream a Zeppelin only run now just to prove it's actually viable.
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Post by Feynman on Mar 9, 2015 18:59:45 GMT -5
It's not that the zeppelin isn't viable, it's just that the benefits don't match up to what the plane offers, making it almost entirely inferior. The extra health is nice, but it's only about 25% more than what the plane has, and it comes with a much larger hitbox to offset it. Any player for whom the extra health would be useful may well end up taking more damage than the extra health offers a buffer for as a result. The zeppelin also suffers from having bombs that are kinda crappy. Their slows, steady fire rate and floaty attack pattern is useful against random goon ships with low health, but they are much less effective than the plane's bombs against bosses, where being able to rapidly drop large clusters of bombs onto a single point is incredibly powerful. The one boss type where the zeppelin actually has any real advantage over the plane is against the giant fortress ships where you need to attack the core from beneath, but a small advantage against that one boss type doesn't make up for being less effective against basically every other boss.
And most importantly of all, since the plane is shaped like a bird, when you fire backwards and drop bombs on enemies it looks like you're shitting on them. Can the zeppelin top that? Yeah, I didn't think so. =P
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 9, 2015 19:42:58 GMT -5
The game was clearly designed with the Zeppelin's limitations in mind, however! Don't forget that the Zeppelin receives health upgrades as the game progresses, too, eventually allowing it to take ~20 hits. The Striker can only take around half that at max, and even with its smaller hitbox, the game is a lot less forgiving if you get hit while piloting it. Not to mention the extra slowdown you get as the Zeppelin! :p
There's only two sections in the game where I wouldn't want to play as it, and that's 2-2 and 6-2, but even then it's manageable. The first time I beat the game, it was with the Zeppelin, and I was maybe 10 at the time. I only bothered with the Striker in recent years because there are certain stages where it excels, and even then it's marginal.
Interestingly, the GBA version differentiates them further by giving the Zeppelin extra fire power, but the cramped screen makes it less useful overall.
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Post by Feynman on Mar 10, 2015 9:41:46 GMT -5
The game was clearly designed with the Zeppelin's limitations in mind, however! Don't forget that the Zeppelin receives health upgrades as the game progresses, too, eventually allowing it to take ~20 hits. That's something of an exaggeration. The 25%-ish health bonus the zeppelin gets remains consistent throughout the game. I was curious about just how much of a difference there actually was and tested it against the third giant bullet enemy in the final stage, allowing both aircraft to just sit there and get hit by the small red bullets the enemy fires. The plane took 11 hits, and the zeppelin took 14 hits. That's only 3 extra hits compared to the plane! I think the zeppelin just feels tankier because its large hitbox and bomb pattern encourages a more cautious style of play, whereas the plane encourages a more aggressive approach. |
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Post by Feynman on Mar 10, 2015 10:09:33 GMT -5
All that said, I do admit that the zeppelin sucks a lot less than I think it does: the fact that we both prefer one type of aircraft over the other so much indicates that it's more a question of what craft suits your approach to the game best more than anything.
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Post by Joseph Joestar on Mar 10, 2015 14:20:38 GMT -5
All that said, I do admit that the zeppelin sucks a lot less than I think it does: the fact that we both prefer one type of aircraft over the other so much indicates that it's more a question of what craft suits your approach to the game best more than anything. I think so too. My initial thoughts changed slightly after a few play sessions, but I still favor the plane because of the smaller hitbox thanks to the need to weave through projectiles or obstacles (I can't imagine using the zeppelin during the escape in Level 2). I haven't played to the boss of 3 yet (I've been playing on default settings) so we'll see how my opinion changes after that. |
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Post by Snarboo on Mar 11, 2015 4:24:28 GMT -5
So I decided to do a quick Zeppelin run up to stage 4, and here's something I've discovered: while the Zeppelin's bombs are harder to aim, they deal way more damage than the Striker's bombs! It's possible the base machine gun on it is more powerful, too. I realized this while fighting stage 2's boss, which died much faster against the blimp than the fighter. Assuming it does deal more damage, there's no reason to pick the Striker over the Zeppelin, because it not only has more health, it also defeats bosses much quicker!
Also worth noting: the cave escape sequence in stage 2-2 is easier as the blimp, since its hitbox remains a consistent size when moving up and down. The Striker's hitbox is a bit deceptive when moving up or down, making it appear larger than it is, which often leads me to over correcting when dodging.
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