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Post by JDarkside on May 7, 2016 18:14:29 GMT -5
<slowly creaks open door to bomb shelter> ... <_< >_> 'sup? Filthy Frank saying it's time to stop
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Post by GamerL on May 13, 2016 6:08:57 GMT -5
Is anyone else suffering from Trump fatigue? He's pretty much all the American media talks about anymore.
It's also weird to think that it's only been a year since his campaign started, it feels like it's been going on for ages and I'm already sick to death of the orange haired fucker.
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on May 13, 2016 9:35:25 GMT -5
I'm not even American and he pisses me off. Trump is like everything (well, almost everything) stupid about politics rolled into a single person
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 9:56:09 GMT -5
As bad as he is I find his fan club worse, if only because they're so starved for both actual leadership and so bad at recognizing wolves in sheep's clothing that they unironically believe what he says.
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on May 13, 2016 10:08:52 GMT -5
Trump fans are a weird bunch because it seems like a lot of them are former Ron Paul supporters despite the fact that Trump's positions are in many ways opposite of Paul's. I've noticed something similar in Poland with more fringe groups converging into mainstream conservatism despite hating each other a few years ago. I have a feeling that rhethorics play a big part in this. if you talk the way people talk, focus on a few commonalities and generally mimic their style of expression, you can sneakily convince people to slowly abandon their values* and accept yours.
* well, it's hard to talk about values when discussing Trump but you know what I mean
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Post by Discoalucard on May 13, 2016 10:17:01 GMT -5
Good news, only other six months of this!
Ron Paul used to be the right's anti-establishment candidate...but he's also a libertarian, and Trump's no libertarian. Anecdotally, any of Ron Paul's supporters went on to support Rand, and loathe Trump for being so crass. Anyone else has hopped onto Gary Johnson, who is the right-wing counterpart to the Green Party's Jill Stein, essentially a non-entity in this election.
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on May 13, 2016 10:48:45 GMT -5
was there a time when third party candidates were not non-entities? IIRC there was a fairly successful one in the 90s but it never got anywhere in the end
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Post by bakudon on May 13, 2016 11:03:34 GMT -5
I can’t be bothered much by Trump, which may have something to do with the fact that I’m not American and won’t actually have to directly deal with him even should he win.
In here, the media has continuously produced analyses how ”Trump will go no further”, which they have subsequently had to review. The media atmosphere is very anti-Trump, though it would support Hillary anyways, as she’s a democrat and a woman to boot. Since Trump is in the headlines all the time, Hillary is mostly characterized by not being Trump. It’s hard to grasp her policies just by following the main news stories here.
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Post by Amelia on May 13, 2016 11:03:55 GMT -5
Ross Perot actually got 18.9% of the popular vote in the 1992 election running as an independent.
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Post by Discoalucard on May 13, 2016 12:30:18 GMT -5
was there a time when third party candidates were not non-entities? IIRC there was a fairly successful one in the 90s but it never got anywhere in the end Not really, at least not in the modern landscape. There are some that got mainstream attention, like Perot in 92 and Nader in 2000. But the "first past the post" counting system and the electoral college ensures that third party votes are going to be ideological rather than practical ones. The establishment hates them because they're viewed as diverting votes away from the bigger candidates - for example, the left-wing hating Nader for giving the election to Bush Jr. It's also one of the main reasons why Bernie Sanders is running as a Democrat, rather than an Independent, which he typically identifies as.
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Post by The Great Klaid on May 13, 2016 12:30:32 GMT -5
was there a time when third party candidates were not non-entities? IIRC there was a fairly successful one in the 90s but it never got anywhere in the end Well I mean Teddy Roosevelt that once...
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Post by Maciej Miszczyk on May 13, 2016 12:50:11 GMT -5
was there a time when third party candidates were not non-entities? IIRC there was a fairly successful one in the 90s but it never got anywhere in the end Not really, at least not in the modern landscape. There are some that got mainstream attention, like Perot in 92 and Nader in 2000. But the "first past the post" counting system and the electoral college ensures that third party votes are going to be ideological rather than practical ones. The establishment hates them because they're viewed as diverting votes away from the bigger candidates - for example, the left-wing hating Nader for giving the election to Bush Jr. It's also one of the main reasons why Bernie Sanders is running as a Democrat, rather than an Independent, which he typically identifies as. and yet some Democrats still see Sanders the same way they see independents - as someone who divides the voters by taking attention away from the more mainstream candidates. BTW one of the weirder things about Polish politics is that the idea of changing voting from proportional to first past the post comes up very often in debates despite the fact that it's by all measures a really stupid system. there's even a fairly large group of MPs that entered the Parliament from a big ('big' as in everyone from libertarians to nationalists to forgotten celebrities from 80s and 90s) tent 'party' (not really a party, I don't know if such thing exists in the US but in Polish elections there are 'lists' which are usually created by parties but don't have to be) with only common goal of introducing such system. it's as bizzarre as it sounds.
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Post by JDarkside on May 13, 2016 19:14:19 GMT -5
was there a time when third party candidates were not non-entities? IIRC there was a fairly successful one in the 90s but it never got anywhere in the end Not really, at least not in the modern landscape. There are some that got mainstream attention, like Perot in 92 and Nader in 2000. But the "first past the post" counting system and the electoral college ensures that third party votes are going to be ideological rather than practical ones. The establishment hates them because they're viewed as diverting votes away from the bigger candidates - for example, the left-wing hating Nader for giving the election to Bush Jr. It's also one of the main reasons why Bernie Sanders is running as a Democrat, rather than an Independent, which he typically identifies as. Even though it's basically throwing away a vote, I want to start voting third party because a loss for a party that's not doing what it should due to another party similar but different can tell them "hey, maybe try this." The Democratic party just pisses me off more and more these days, especially with how blindly so many of them just follow Hillary Clinton with no critical thought, shit on my entire generation, and are supporting a campaign that has two slogans of equal bullshit of "We're not Trump" and "You kids don't know yet." Kind of hope the party implodes like it looks that the Republican party is. The right is only getting more and more extreme viewpoints on the national level, and they're actually gaining support in ways that should be impossible in what people view as a sane world. The left is actually going to have to go left one of these days instead of going in the direction of "centralism" aka right economically and socially, but not nearly as loud about that second one.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5
As bad as he is I find his fan club worse, if only because they're so starved for both actual leadership and so bad at recognizing wolves in sheep's clothing that they unironically believe what he says. Wait, did he quit or was he banned?
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Post by GamerL on May 13, 2016 19:41:29 GMT -5
As bad as he is I find his fan club worse, if only because they're so starved for both actual leadership and so bad at recognizing wolves in sheep's clothing that they unironically believe what he says. Wait, did he quit or was he banned? I was wondering the same thing, I think he might have deleted his own account. Anyhoo I'm pretty confident Trump wont win, but the bar has nevertheless been lowered for American politics, which is unsettling enough, but I think what it probably ultimately really means is that we're witnessing the death of the republican party, they wound up undermining their own authority by constantly pushing an anti-government attitude as a way to slam Obama but now they've found that whoops, they're part of the government too and their former followers have turned on them, there's no going back after Trump, they've completely screwed themselves over and it's hilarious because they're getting exactly what they deserve for supposedly being pro-America patriots while also trying to sabotage America at every turn just to get at Obama. What we should really be worried about are the Democrats and Hilary, I have a lot of concerns about Hilary because as I've been learning she, like Bill before her are really just "conservative-lite" and not actual progressives and with the very, very precarious situation in the world today military wise with ISIS, Syria and Russia I worry she'll get us embroiled in some sort of war.
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