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Post by nerdybat on Oct 28, 2017 10:32:00 GMT -5
huh  |
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Post by Bumpyroad on Nov 23, 2017 17:12:27 GMT -5
Batman(NES) introduces its gameplay mechanics pretty much right from the start, but its complexity shows up only in the second half or so. Then, it becomes hard all of the sudden--the question is: whose fault is that-game's or the player's.
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f2bnp
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by f2bnp on Nov 30, 2017 16:18:40 GMT -5
Hello, this is my first post here. Just posting to say that I really love this podcast, I used to listen (and watch) to GC9X and Top47k occasionally, but in the last month or so I've begun listening to the entirety of it.
I'm enjoying it massively, keep up the good work.
PS. Just to be another vocal Riven fan, what the hell were you even talking about in that episode hahaha
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Post by Bobinator on Nov 30, 2017 18:50:50 GMT -5
Are we seriously the only people who don't like Riven? I'm starting to wonder.
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Post by eatersthemanfool on Dec 3, 2017 0:33:28 GMT -5
That appears to be the case. I never played Riven, though, so I can't comment.
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Post by nerdybat on Dec 3, 2017 8:01:32 GMT -5
For a first person adventure title, Riven is pretty damn great, and there are a lot of subtle elements that make this game somewhat special, especially for those who got a chance to play the thing back when it was first released, and weren't spoiled by modern, less clumsy point'n'click games as a result. The points in the podcast were mostly valid, it's just that same complaints can be said about majority of first person adventure titles (or adventure titles in general), and since your crew doesn't seem to like point'n'click games very much (which is understandable, it's sort of a niche genre that thrived for a bit due to limitations more than anything else), you didn't really have enough patience or care for the game to see its good side. Riven is the kind of game that doubles down on its target audience - fans of point'n'click games will most likely enjoy it a lot, but it's definitely not for those who prefer something else .u.
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Post by nerdybat on Dec 4, 2017 6:17:02 GMT -5
...hey, I've played Rally X in last 5 years!
(to unlock a secret car in Ridge Racer for PSP, but still :^) )
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Post by pauliegatto on Dec 4, 2017 14:33:32 GMT -5
I might have missed it, but was episode 67 ever uploaded onto Patreon with the bonus segment?
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Post by Discoalucard on Dec 4, 2017 15:51:36 GMT -5
I might have missed it, but was episode 67 ever uploaded onto Patreon with the bonus segment? Looking through it, it may have gotten lost during the time I was transitioning to the new site. I'll post it tonight, but you should find it in the backer-only RSS feeds too. |
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f2bnp
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by f2bnp on Dec 5, 2017 6:30:17 GMT -5
For a first person adventure title, Riven is pretty damn great, and there are a lot of subtle elements that make this game somewhat special, especially for those who got a chance to play the thing back when it was first released, and weren't spoiled by modern, less clumsy point'n'click games as a result. The points in the podcast were mostly valid, it's just that same complaints can be said about majority of first person adventure titles (or adventure titles in general), and since your crew doesn't seem to like point'n'click games very much (which is understandable, it's sort of a niche genre that thrived for a bit due to limitations more than anything else), you didn't really have enough patience or care for the game to see its good side. Riven is the kind of game that doubles down on its target audience - fans of point'n'click games will most likely enjoy it a lot, but it's definitely not for those who prefer something else .u. Good points. I'd call myself a seasoned adventure game player, but I only really gave the Myst games a chance only last year when I played through the first one and then Riven. I really enjoyed just how surreal Myst was, its once "photo-realistic" early 90's pre-rendered images now evoking a surreal visual experience. Riven takes all the concepts from Myst and just goes nuts with them. For years, I was told that it was an amazing game, so I always treated it with some respect, but I was very concerned going into it, as hype is usually not a good thing. I was seriously blown away by the experience and I consider its puzzle design masterful and unique to this day. Without wanting to give any spoilers, I just want to say that the game doesn't really have many puzzles in it, essentially it's made up of 2-3 big puzzles that you have to solve, while the rest of the puzzles are usually very simple and act as a sort of guidance to the bigger ones. What is essential is understanding how the world works and slowly figuring out everything. Riven was truly a one in a lifetime experience for me and I never expected to love it as much as I did. It probably helped that I was playing through the game with another person who was also very adept at adventure games, although we still had to resort to the walkthrough a couple of times just to get a nudge in the right direction. Don't try to play this game solely with a walkthrough, it really is pointless and will make the experience really dull. With that in mind, I believe Myst is required play before you ever get into Riven, since it builds up on all the mechanics of the first game. Some elements such as some random FMV of people populating the world are open to criticism, but I took issue with the podcast, because the crew seemed primed to tear it apart. Obviously, I don't really care much and their opinion is very much valid, but I do feel they didn't go over some of its finer elements, such as the amazing world building through subtleties, the still very beautiful art design, very well written characters such as Gehn etc Instead, I had to listen to them making fun of the title, because it's called " The sequel to Myst" and not Myst 2. Well, it doesn't take place on Myst, so why would it be called Myst 2 in the first place if it weren't for publisher enforced marketing reasons? This was a little sad to hear, seeing as the crew has more than once called out similar situations with numerical sequels that have nothing to do with the original game. Again, no hard feelings whatsoever, just raising a discussion  . |
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Post by kal on Jan 7, 2018 19:53:05 GMT -5
We actually love the name "The Sequel To Myst" there's just a degree of absurdity to it - picking a name for your game that no one will *get* so you have to label the actual name of your game to tell people what it is.
I do think the others were too hard because they're uncultured swine who put the game what I would consider quite low. However there is a particular issue which has been brought attention to that is more or less the catch 22 with Riven. Myst, which is one of my favourite adventure games ever, has a particularly elegant balance of puzzle size and complexity that Riven very deliberately abandoned in what I guess is a microcosm of the point and click genre. It chased after people who were fans of and had mastered Myst which is problematic since the game became much more difficult and slower as a direct result in an era where puzzle games were peaking in terms of challenge. Not that this explains why blatantly unrepentant enthusiast games like the Souls series are as high on our list but that's a different fight that I wage every single podcast >__>
My opinion has been that a good puzzle game will gently guide you in the appropriate direction and to the appropriate solutions, in lieu of that at least take place in a smaller space. Riven has some in person writing but nothing that really can be extrapolated out into assistance for a lost and confused novice in an ever expanding space. Ultimately it can be quite hard to gauge your success and to what degree you are moving forward in Riven, Myst had Pages which functioned as a sort of "you have done all you NEED to do in this Age, good work" and there just isn't an anchor like that in Riven. It's always the kinda achilles heel of point and clicks, the games are going great until you get stuck and then you're trapped in a hell of slow moving object interactions.
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f2bnp
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Post by f2bnp on Jan 8, 2018 11:14:50 GMT -5
Wow, someone answered to my lengthy post!  Jokes aside, I agree with most of what you say, especially on the point you make about progress and how the games let you know you've accomplished something. I think Riven can be an equally frustrating experience for novice players as well as "hardcore" adventure gamers that have come to expect and anticipate specific gamey things from them. For me personally, it was exactly that sort of lack of game mechanics if you will, the lack of puzzles and progress reminders that sold it for me. I think Myst was great and I had a lot of fun playing Myst 3 as well, I think there's something to be said about isolating a set of puzzles in defined areas (or Ages) and I have played many games such as these, some of which I particularly enjoyed, like Schizm. I don't know, perhaps I'm odd or perhaps I happened to have very specific ideas about how this sort of game should be like and Riven completely threw everything out of the window. It was the sort of game that made me wonder if I could feasibly ever create something like it long after I had finished it and I very rarely think like that. |
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Post by phediuk on Jan 30, 2018 21:08:42 GMT -5
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Post by nerdybat on Feb 1, 2018 7:16:05 GMT -5
It's always the kinda achilles heel of point and clicks, the games are going great until you get stuck and then you're trapped in a hell of slow moving object interactions. For me, a good way of playing point'n'clicks is to place a 20-60 minute timer (depending on the kind of game and how much do I want to challenge myself), and then turn it on when I get stuck with a puzzle. Then, if it runs out before I can solve the puzzle, I go and look for some minor tip in the walkthrough. This amount of time is just enough to try all the logical options and mess around with possible solutions, and I don't feel too guilty for googling answers out (after all, it's the exact amount of time at which I give up on solving puzzles and start brute-forcing the item combinations anyway) |
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Post by X-pert74 on Feb 2, 2018 16:13:04 GMT -5
When I try to click this link now, I get this: |
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