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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 17, 2016 10:16:41 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Srs17GpWgWizardry I soundtrack. It's not the NES version though they're similar. I'm pretty sure it's not FM, and the 1981 game was silent. So were the PC-88 and -98 games AFAIK.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jul 17, 2016 10:57:57 GMT -5
It's identified in the video as OPL2, which is a sound format often used in MSX2 games -- disk games in particular. I'm not sure if other systems also used the OPLL/OPL2 standard, though -- I'm assuming they did. (I think the Sega Master System did with its FM music, for example.) This promo video for MSX Wizardry, though, specifies that the game has no BGM. So unless there was a later rerelease for MSX2 that added BGM, I don't think that's it? www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZk7XDSX9M-Tom
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Post by wyrdwad on Jul 17, 2016 11:03:09 GMT -5
Looking into it further, it's probably from the PC-88 version. The PC-98 version is confirmed to have NOT been silent -- this theme played as title screen music, albeit with slightly better synth, as heard here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ucOjLouqoIn fact, it seems the entire game was scored! I can't find any good videos of the PC-88 version that don't have the audio turned down in favor of a dude speaking, but I think it's fair to extrapolate that if the PC-98 version has title screen music, the PC-88 version probably did as well. -Tom
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 17, 2016 12:20:50 GMT -5
The thing about that second clip is that it sounds so close to the NES version, that I think he might actually have added it to the video afterwards? Someone who knows japanese could perhaps pick up on that, I tried asking in the comments but yeah.
What an odd way to start a promo, "no bgm!" haha.
I suppose it could be MSX 2 but it sounds more like a regular PSG chip, which an FM one could emulate but still.
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Post by wyrdwad on Jul 17, 2016 12:27:57 GMT -5
The promo clip begins with something like, "No BGM, simple graphics, and the spell system is convoluted, so why do so many people consider this the #1 RPG in the world?" Definitely a peculiar way to advertise the game, but also kind of brilliant in its own unique way! Also, I've been playing a lot of MSX games lately, featuring both PSG and OPLL/OPL2 music, and to me, the clip you linked sounds like super-simple OPLL FM. The tonal quality of it is a little beyond what I'd expect to hear from PSG, coming across more as a no-frills OPLL composition -- something that probably could've just been done in PSG, but for whatever reason, the composer decided to use the slightly more advanced FM synth instead. I'm by no means an expert, however, so I could be totally off here! -Tom
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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 17, 2016 13:16:30 GMT -5
I don't think it's OPL2 like the video says - OPL2 is what was used in AdLib/SoundBlaster cards back in the late 80s/early 90s and it's more advanced than this. For example, here's the Doom OPL2 music: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo51kLdNkoQA lot of PC games from the era sounded like this.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 17, 2016 14:03:05 GMT -5
Yeah exactly. While you can get square wave-like sounds out of it I think (you can make very accurate NES music on MD/GEN), it would be odd if they went for that. NES style example on MD (YM2612+SN76489) by me and another guy, which uses the SMS's PSG tones and noise but also FM emulation of square waves and triangle wave bass: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRe30TR0QqkIf it is OPL2, the question is when such a version was released and on which system. I guess I'd have to download different versions if no one knows.
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Chezni
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Post by Chezni on Jul 26, 2016 10:13:37 GMT -5
The OPL2 was released in 1985, but the first Youtube video there says the soundtrack is from 1981. And I know the OPL2 was widely used in various PC soundcards in North America, but in Japan I think it only appeared in the Sega Genesis and the FM Towns -- both of which have superior graphics to the title screen in that video. To my ears, and judging by the graphics of the title screen, it seems like the soundtrack might be from an Apple II fitted with one of those ALF soundcards. EDIT: This video of the Apple II version of Wizardy has much better sound, but it's definitely the exact same title screen, and it looks like it was released in 1981. I listened to some SN76489 videos and have come to the conclusion however an ALF soundcard was not used for the soundtrack in ommadawnyawn2's link, as the waveform resolution is not quite as nice. This video demonstrating the SD soundcard for the Apple II actually has a similar tonal quality, and according to Wikipedia the soundcard uses a YM2413, otherwise known as the OPL2. So I think that settles it. ommadawnyawn2's link is of Wizardry for the Apple II, released in 1981, using a soundcard that was released sometime after 1985. Apparently there are clones of the SD soundcard (and other hardware) still manufactured for the Apple II as well, available here.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 30, 2016 11:02:40 GMT -5
In that first link you posted it sounds like he added music afterwards. It could be the SD card yeah, it sounds more like a typical FM chip in that example but as I said you can make square waves with FM. In the vid I linked to in the OP, it just doesn't sound like most game ost's typically did with FM chips back then. I got a confirmation from a japanese guy about the PC-88 ver earlier: "No. It has beep sound only. You are welcome." www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbrZkdO0GGI
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Chezni
Junior Member
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Post by Chezni on Jul 30, 2016 15:08:38 GMT -5
I found the manual for the Apple II version of Wizardry, where it says the game uses version 1.1 of the Pascal OS. And according to this the Pascal OS introduced a standard protocol for music and sound effects. That explains how a game released in 1981 could be compatible with a soundcard released at least 4 years later, if not more (and the Apple II soundcard used in this video was probably released in the early 1990s). The SD soundcard for the Apple II probably had basic, preset sounds designed by the manufacturer for use with the Pascal OS music protocol, which would explain why the sounds in your video don't sound as impressive as other OPL-2 sounds. Also, square waves are (to my ears) typically more "buzzy" than the sounds in your video -- the sounds in your video sounds like simple FM with a total lack of modulation to me. Now let's take a moment to appreciate the Pascal OS. It was released in 1979 and introduced a standard protocol for music and sound effects that allowed games to work with a variety of third-party soundcards and expansions. This was three years before MIDI, and at least two years before Oberheim's MIDI precursor. I suspect the Pascal OS may have been the first to achieve such an advancement.
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Post by starscream on Jul 31, 2016 10:41:06 GMT -5
In that first link you posted it sounds like he added music afterwards. It could be the SD card yeah, it sounds more like a typical FM chip in that example but as I said you can make square waves with FM. In the vid I linked to in the OP, it just doesn't sound like most game ost's typically did with FM chips back then. I got a confirmation from a japanese guy about the PC-88 ver earlier: "No. It has beep sound only. You are welcome." www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbrZkdO0GGI The composer in the OP vid is given as Kentaro Hantano, who is credited for the NES version among other things. Which makes it very unlikely this was an actual Apple soundtrack, certainly not the 81 release. Usually, additional Apple sound support came via the Mockingboard, and I've never read anything about any Wizardry support for it. Unfortunately I just realized I don't have the PC-98 port among the ton of PC-98 stuff I otherwise have, else I would have just give it a try.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 31, 2016 12:13:13 GMT -5
Also, square waves are (to my ears) typically more "buzzy" than the sounds in your video -- the sounds in your video sounds like simple FM with a total lack of modulation to me. Yeah these are cleaner, more like SMS/MSX or beeper noise, or what you get with for exampe YM2612 if the TL of operator 1 is rather low. But clean, unmodulated FM produces sine waves doesn't it? So not like in the vid. Thanks for the pascal os info though!
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Chezni
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Post by Chezni on Jul 31, 2016 12:58:54 GMT -5
There's quite a few Japanese Youtube videos demonstrating Wizardry for what appears to be the Apple II with Kentarō Haneda's soundtrack. And there's at least one video which specifies it is the Apple II version of the game, with Haneda's soundtrack. I have a hard time believing multiple Youtube users dubbed different renditions of Haneda's soundtrack over their videos, so maybe the Japanese game was later modded to include Haneda's soundtrack? It wouldn't be the first time a developer (or fans for that matter) added music to an old game that previously had none. This (English) page has three scenario mods for the Apple II version of Wizardry, so I don't think it's that far-fetched to suggest the Japanese Wizardry community inserted Haneda's soundtrack in to the Apple II version of the game, especially considering how popular the series is in Japan. Unfortunately I've had no luck finding information about such a mod, but I can't read Japanese so that's really no surprise!
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 31, 2016 13:42:04 GMT -5
The first one posted, by wyrdwad, sounded a lot like the NES version, and this other one you've reposted sounds like a redbook soundtrack release (which doesn't loop properly, see 4:43. The track changes at 7:26 and 8:30 also sound kinda random). I don't think it's that unlikely, but I don't know for sure. Maybe it is modded.
Edit: Actually the music does seem to change depending on the location, didn't spot that at first. I guess it is modded then.
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Post by starscream on Jul 31, 2016 15:18:50 GMT -5
There's quite a few Japanese Youtube videos demonstrating Wizardry for what appears to be the Apple II with Kentarō Haneda's soundtrack. And there's at least one video which specifies it is the Apple II version of the game, with Haneda's soundtrack. This is written below the video: ※この作品には元々音楽はありませんので別途サウンドを当てています。今回ダンジョン内の文字がぼやけたところもございますが、次回以降若干シャープになる予定です。 Google Translate says: have separately applied the sound because it does not have the original music for this work. There is also so that the letters of this time in the dungeon was blurred, but it is going to be a slightly sharp after the next time.About the video in the OP: Maybe the music there wasn't used in any game, but is a cover?
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