Ogre Battle

[Deleted]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that while you don't personally feel that training was a huge problem in the original Tactics Ogre, it was still enough of an issue to prevent most people from making very much progress in the game at all. The other points you mentioned sound valid, but you've played through the game both ways, so you hold some nostalgia for the original. The average person was never able to get beyond the issue presented by training, so even if these other things were changed for the worse, the majority of players would never know the difference.

[Resident Tsundere]

My first Ogre game was OB64. I came out like gangbusters with some of these N64 games in hindsight.

My character became Chaos-aligned, which kind of made me want to restart the game, but I haven't played in years. The N64 is packed away. ;-;

I also have the original Ogre Battle and The Knight of Lodis on emulators, but I haven't formally started them.

Tactics Ogre PSP is amazing.

It's cool that HG101 gave this series some coverage.

[edmonddantes]

So I'm guessing the entries on Ogre Battle 64 and Tactics Ogre: Knight of Lodis are conversions-in-progress? They don't seem to be present on the current version of the site...

Gotta be honest, I played the PSX "Limited Edition" of March of the Black Queen some time ago, and... I was initially enthused, but after awhile grew bored, largely because--and maybe I'm missing something, but--I felt like I had basically no involvement in anything that was happening. I seriously felt like my entire role was to say "you, go here." I didn't really even see anything resembling strategy or tactics, as all you can really do is tell your units to Go Here and the way battles work seems to effectively prevent you from strategizing. The article makes it out like the main thing is alignments and reputation, but I guess that takes awhile to kick in because I didn't feel like I had much to do with that either. I only got like three maps in though, so maybe I gave up too soon? But when each map takes hours to clear....

EDIT:  By the way, maybe I'm reading something wrong, but it sounds like the plot of "Prince of Zenobia" actually contradicts "March of the Black Queen."  If the son of the assassinated King escaped and raised an army of his own to take back his kingdom, then doesn't that make the rebellion you lead in "March" basically unable to happen since the evil rulers have been overthrown?  Or does the game have a "you die" ending which is assumed to be canon for the sake of March?

[ReyVGM]

The strategy is organizing an balancing your units so you can defeat the enemies before they defeat you. The game has a ton of maps, so my guess is that map 3 was still too easy. OB is very slow, I agree. I fell asleep a couple of times and was only able to really enjoy it on an emulator by increasing the speed of the game. The PS1 version is probably even slower than the SNES version though.

However, OB64 is much better and much faster. That one was amazing, and you have to organize your units pretty well in order to get through the game.

[Jungyin]

I recall the highest map movement speed setting in the PS1 version was much faster than the SNES one, but didn't make up for the disc loading times dragging the overall pace down.

[edmonddantes]

To be honest the disc loading didn't bother me because I found a way around it--playing the game on PS2.

Ogre Battle was one of those games I read about in Nintendo Power as a kid, never had a chance to own it, but years later found the PS1 version for an affordable price and went for it. A part of me wishes I had gotten it on Super Nintendo as a kid because I might at least have some nostalgia (I was also more apt to play games thru to completion as a kid whereas I get bored too easily these days) and I might've seen the depth. As it is I felt like I was just saying "go here" a lot and watching the game play itself, then when I found out about hidden items on the maps (and thus the necessity to just send units to empty islands and such) it began to get tedious. I won't lie, I hate that kind of stuff in RPGs and strategy games--I'm very much a "stick to the point" kind of guy.

I DO own Ogre Battle 64 tho... got it for like sixty bucks from a collector (it was boxed and everything and even had one of those plastic containers meant specifically to protect complete copies). I kinda feel bad even playing such a pristine copy tho, but what little I did play did indeed feel more involved.

Anyway this article has made me want to give Ogre Battle another spin. Come tonight, come to the sight, come to the Ogre Battle fight!

... also, isn't it odd that there's not a fan translation of the NGPC game? I mean usually franchises like this get all the niche translator attention.... and it still sounds to me like the NGPC's storyline renders March of the Black Queen impossible unless Zenobian Prince ends with said prince's rebellion failing...

[Discoalucard]

I never got into the original Ogre Battle either. I had borrowed the PS1 version from someone and it was just way too slow. On the other hand, I loved Ogre Battle 64, even though I haven't really played it since it came out. It seemed less messy and chaotic. I think you might actually have less control on 64, though...IIRC you can only use cards in battle or something like that? I remember having a conversation with one of my old roommates, who LOVED the SNES game, and that was a sticking point for him.

Anyway, since this popped up here, I finished converting everything to the new site (though I think I still have to activate the screenshot bar on the old ones). This coming year, I'm going to focus on getting an article in order for Final Fantasy Tactics.

[edmonddantes]

Reading the rest of the articles now.

These games sound interesting, particularly since the stories were inspired by real history and as such will hopefully avoid some of the vacuousness that Japanese RPGs/Strategy Games/etc usually get mixed up in (pretty boy saves world from monsters because environmental awareness or something). I'm thinking of springing for a copy of Tactics Ogre online but I'm not sure which version I'd prefer--SNES repro cart, PS1, or the PSP version. A part of me wants to go for one of the former two for a more purist experience but a part of me wants more reasons to use my beloved PSP, which is seriously one of the most underrated portables of all time.

The only thing holding me back, besides that, is that sometimes I hate strategy RPGs--and sometimes JRPGs in general due to how many little niggles there are and how often they seem designed around owning a strategy guide (Star Ocean is especially bad about this on the PSP--which of these hundreds of skills do I actually need, if any of them, and which am I screwing myself by wasting my time on? Unfortunately this has been a huge problem with the genre for me because I hate feeling like I made a mistake simply because I'm not psychic).

[Deleted]

Get the PSP version if you value your time.

[Discoalucard]

Dec 14, 2017 10:45:51 GMT -5 edmonddantes said:

Reading the rest of the articles now.

These games sound interesting, particularly since the stories were inspired by real history and as such will hopefully avoid some of the vacuousness that Japanese RPGs/Strategy Games/etc usually get mixed up in (pretty boy saves world from monsters because environmental awareness or something). I'm thinking of springing for a copy of Tactics Ogre online but I'm not sure which version I'd prefer--SNES repro cart, PS1, or the PSP version. A part of me wants to go for one of the former two for a more purist experience but a part of me wants more reasons to use my beloved PSP, which is seriously one of the most underrated portables of all time.

The only thing holding me back, besides that, is that sometimes I hate strategy RPGs--and sometimes JRPGs in general due to how many little niggles there are and how often they seem designed around owning a strategy guide (Star Ocean is especially bad about this on the PSP--which of these hundreds of skills do I actually need, if any of them, and which am I screwing myself by wasting my time on? Unfortunately this has been a huge problem with the genre for me because I hate feeling like I made a mistake simply because I'm not psychic).

I'd suggest starting with something lighter...Final Fantasy Tactics isn't exactly a casual game, but it is easier than Tactics Ogre. And if you do go for Tactics Ogre....I know there's some disagreement among fans, but I found the original SFC game basically unplayable, because the permadeath is just too brutal in the early stages of the game, and the leveling system is pretty dumb too. FF Tactics has its eccentricities - it has a mean inverse learning curve plus some irritating difficult spikes that are fine if you know they're coming but dehabilitating if you don't - but it's also a little more player friendly.

[edmonddantes]

I do have this one PS1 strategy game called Saiyuki: Journey West -- which I've heard plays similar to FF Tactics., but is based on the story of Journey to the West (the original story, not the anime version with the guns and stuff... and not Dragon Ball)

I also have the Arc the Lad trilogy.

Not sure how well either of those work as training grounds for Tactics Ogre. For what its worth though I first discovered strategy RPGs with Shining Force on the Genesis and I've played stuff like Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Military Madness, and Master of Monsters... that last one might well be more bastardly than Tactics Ogre.

Might head to a game store today. If they have Tactics Ogre I'll take that as a sign and pick it up, no matter what version it is (but ESPECIALLY if its the PS1 version, since that would have to be destiny talking).

Incidentally I think I'm enjoying Ogre Battle more on my second attempt than I did originally.

[Owlman]

I didn't play Ogre Battle (the SNES version) for that long, but I found it rather dull. The interesting part was to set up the parties and develop the characters, but it felt like as if this only 5% of the game. The other 95% is staring at the overworld map and waiting for something to happen, with the best (though not necessarily fastest) strategy being hanging out at the starting position and waiting for the enemy troops to attack until they run out of soldiers. Oh, and the reputation metre is a pain.

[edmonddantes]

Ogre Battle started to make sense to me this time, around Lake Jansenia (where, unfortunately, I lost a LOT of reputation due to my own incompetence and facing the bad guy during the day--it makes sense in context). Until then I was just keeping units in their default configurations, but that map was when I started editing and customizing groups and trying to tailor them to specific situations.

One thing I do dislike though is the presence of hidden treasures and such on the map. Sometimes its plainly obvious where one is, but even so it feels like a chore to send units scouting every seemingly-empty corner just to make sure there is nothing there. Earlier maps made it seem like such treasures and locations would be hinted at somehow but that doesn't seem to always be certain. In general it feels like something meant to make me buy the strategy guide, which I don't want to do (on first-time playthrus I like to play by myself without help as much as possible).

The only other thing I don't care much for is the repetitive nature of the maps and how it feels like my progress from previous maps doesn't have much bearing on the current area, and I sort of agree with Owlman's complaints above though they're not bothering me as much.

[finalventcard]

The only Tactics Ogre game I've really played was Knight of Lodis. I dug the character growth system for the game, the fun character classes, and the Achievements-esque Entitlements. But it was so slow... it could be rather frustrating to play, especially in the beginning when all you had available were a few soldiers and you fought seemingly nothing but Hawkmen, mermaids and octopi.

Getting an Angel, a Warlock, a Swordmaster wielding a Snapdragon Sword, and a Vrtra was just *fun*, man. Just wish some of those wrinkles in the pacing and structure were ironed out.

Also, needing to beat the game in under 25 hours to get the best ending? Get outta here with that noise!

[drpepperfan]

shmuplations.com/tacticsogre/ Newly translated interviews from 1995/1993 with Yasumi Matsuno about Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle.