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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Feb 23, 2018 18:51:41 GMT -5
Oh cool, that does sound closer to other OPNA OSTs, though in Town for example I think there's still some post processing and higher end than normal percussion samples used while the twitter posted songs sound like the real deal.
Basically sounds like he used the FM instruments from the early Falcom days.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Mar 3, 2018 18:00:26 GMT -5
I've added a QSound page, and updated the main page with picture links to make it easier to navigate for newcomers (hover over a pic to see what system it is if you're still not sure). minirevver.weebly.com/impressive-vgm-by-sound-chip.htmlminirevver.weebly.com/qsound-music.htmlI think QSound was a pretty big leap forward in terms of sound design for Capcom in particular, most of it being on par with good SNES music or better. A lot of it also sounds very similar though, and guitars still tend to sound kinda mechanical and/or in-between guitar and synth brass. If you're into jazz rock, fusion or 90s dance, most of this stuff is worth a listen.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 18, 2018 20:34:24 GMT -5
Getting back on track with a Namco C352 page. Some of their biggest games used this chip (Ridge Racer and Tekken for example), and the arcade versions tend to sound a bit different. Unlike with the C219 chip there's enough here to discern a kind of evolution in sound design as composers mastered using it, and some of the last soundtracks come close to redbook quality. minirevver.weebly.com/namco-c352-music.html
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 21, 2018 12:42:55 GMT -5
Added a page for the Sega MultiPCM/YMW258-F sound chip and updated the yearly lists with C352, OPX and MultiPCM entries. Not a chip used in many games, but kind of iconic since it was used in Sega's early 3D arcade games, including Daytona USA. Let's go away! minirevver.weebly.com/sega-multipcm-music.html
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 22, 2018 19:17:37 GMT -5
Finally finished up the 1998 page today: minirevver.weebly.com/vgm-1998.htmlIt's another nice and short one - most of the DOS games listed on mobygames that I thought I would be adding were just re-releases from earlier years. Windows-based games with mod music is still early WIP, will look into them more thoroughly later on. Next up is one of these: ES5505 (Arcade, PC?) YMF278B/OPL4 (Arcade, MSX2+) Gravis Ultrasound (PC) YMZ280B/PCMD8 (Arcade) N64 Two other chips I'd like to cover are Konami K007232 and BSMT2000, but I can only find one OST using the former (exclusively, not with FM) and four using the latter (not counting pinball machines). It's not really enough for separate pages so they're on hold for now.
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Chezni
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Posts: 90
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Post by Chezni on May 22, 2018 20:54:07 GMT -5
QSound seems to refer to a software filter rather than a sound chip. This page focuses on the chip used in Capcom's arcade systems (DL-1425 Q1 QSound DSP16A Processor), which used QSound for the mixing of the sound. Click the image for a link to the wikipedia info page for QSound. QSound contains a specialized filter algorithm, but it's sort of misleading to describe it as such. It's an audio mixer that mixes individual audio channels in a three-dimensional space, or at least the perception of three-dimensional space, using stereo (two-channel) playback. This is achieved using a specialized filter algorithm, in addition to finely-tuned reverberation effects. Campcom CPS II games had a QSound chip, but there must have been an additional chip or additional functionality since CPS II soundtracks clearly used some kind of hardware sampler/tracker, somewhat similar to the SPC700 in the SNES.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 22, 2018 21:11:01 GMT -5
Ok and what is your source? Wikipedia says "essentially a filtering algorithm" so I think this wording is easy to grasp and accurate enough. You say yourself that a filter rather than hardware is used and for mixing of the sound only.
The CPS2 sound chip is what I said it was and it's using QSound to mix its output.
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Chezni
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Post by Chezni on May 22, 2018 22:47:26 GMT -5
Ok and what is your source? Wikipedia says "essentially a filtering algorithm" so I think this wording is easy to grasp and accurate enough. There's a detailed QSound article here. And if you open a CPS II game in VGMTrans it's apparent that CPS II soundtracks utilize some kind of sampler/tracker, similar to the SPC700 in the SNES or the SPU in the original Playstation. VGMTrans can even convert CPS II game samples and instrument definitions to the soundfont/.sf2 format, so there's definitely more than just "a filtering algorithm" at work in CPS II games. You say yourself that a filter rather than hardware is used and for mixing of the sound only. I didn't say that. QSound is an algorithm implemented on an AT&T DSP16A chip, a programmable -- but not re-configurable -- hardware chip. And while QSound utilizes carefully balanced HRTF, FIR, mirror and all-pass filters, most people wouldn't think of these technologies working in concert together simply as filters, especially since most people are only familiar with low pass and high pass filters. (EDIT: For example, on your SNES page you don't refer to the FIR filter on the SNES as a filter, you refer to it as an "echo effect". /EDIT) These days, most people would think of QSound as a type of "motional surround" or "3D panning", or possibly even "A3D" or "binaural positioning" if they're from an older generation. And none of this describes the audio generation -- the initial audio being processed by, or fed into, QSound, does it? So there must be something else going on with CPS II game soundtracks -- the sampler/tracker I referred to earlier. The CPS2 sound chip is what I said it was and it's using QSound to mix its output. I'm sorry, where did you refer to the CPS II audio chip as anything more than a "a software filter"?
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Chezni
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by Chezni on May 22, 2018 23:26:23 GMT -5
And for what it's worth Yamaha's YM and OPN chips don't actually utilize Frequency Modulation, despite being marketed as such and the fact that FM is a legitimate type of synthesis as well. Yamaha's YM and OPN chips utilize Phase Modulation. There's a brief article on the subject here, if you're interested.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 23, 2018 7:16:59 GMT -5
"There's a detailed QSound article here." Yeah and it states that it's a filter that requires hardware to do the mixing in real-time, not that it's a chip. You quoted me saying the CPS2 chip's name above. "I didn't say that." You made it sound like that here: "This is achieved using a specialized filter algorithm" and not mentioning any hardware. "implemented on an AT&T DSP16A chip" Ok, and what's your source now? "most people are only familiar with low pass and high pass filters." I'd bet "most people" aren't fmailiar with those terms either - look, it was just a short comment on the wikipedia article that I link to on that page (which I mention on the page too) which anyone can click on and get more detailed info. The focus was on the CPS2's chip since this is about chiptunes. "And none of this describes the audio generation -- the initial audio being processed by, or fed into, QSound, does it? So there must be something else going on with CPS II game soundtracks -- the sampler/tracker I referred to earlier." And which is mentioned on the page you quoted already (DL-1425 Q1 QSound DSP16A Processor)! But if that name is incorrect (the DSP is usually listed separately it seems) and if there's a page on that chip specifically somewhere then I'd appreciate better info. And for what it's worth Yamaha's YM and OPN chips don't actually utilize Frequency Modulation, despite being marketed as such and the fact that FM is a legitimate type of synthesis as well. Yamaha's YM and OPN chips utilize Phase Modulation. There's a brief article on the subject here, if you're interested. I mean, it's referred to as FM everywhere else that I've seen. What is the point of me using PM instead? If there's an actual difference in the output that you can show then yeah, maybe I could mention it somewhere.
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Chezni
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Posts: 90
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Post by Chezni on May 23, 2018 11:48:39 GMT -5
QSound is a proprietary algorithm -- and like any algorithm it can be implemented in the software or hardware domain. The purpose of the algorithm is to create a sense of three-dimensional space in stereo (two-channel) playback. The filters are used to create a sense of vertical space, and rear and front projection, rather than just simply left and right panning. In other words, in the Giant Bomb article where it states dedicated hardware was required "to do the mixing in realtime" it is referring to the entire QSound mixing algorithm, including the filters. That's why I felt referring to QSound merely as "a filter" was misleading, the filters are used for mixing effects. The image of the QSound chip on your page has the AT&T logo, and you idenified the chip as a "DL-1425 Q1 QSound DSP16A Processor". There's a pamphlet for the chip here, and you'll note it has the same pin count. It's a hardware DSP chip, which is typically only used for processing incoming audio, and is definitely where the QSound algorithm is implemented. It's possible that tracker/sampler playback on the CPS II system is implemented on the DSP16A as well, but I'm not sure about that. And as far as FM and PM go... they're functionally very similar. I don't think it's terribly inaccurate to refer to the type of synthesis employed by Yamaha as FM, especially since they erroneously marketed it as such, but if you're going for accuracy it is actually PM. And you needn't rely on that article I referred to as the only source, if you Google "Yamaha Phase Modulation" you'll get tons of articles and forum discussions on the subject.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 23, 2018 12:25:52 GMT -5
Yeah you already said that.. is it wrong to say software instead of algorithm? I guess I could change software filter to filtering software or algorithm, it's not really important to this project.
So you can notice that detail but not me mentioning the chip on the same page? Whatever. We don't know if that sound chip or rather DSP specifically is needed, it's just the only case used for game soundtracks in the chiptune sense afawk.
Ok. I don't think it's important enough to change.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 29, 2018 17:02:42 GMT -5
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Post by KGRAMR on May 29, 2018 18:39:30 GMT -5
What about the Atari Jaguar? It has the Jerry chip, which was not only the DSP for the system but was also the sound chip for it
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on May 30, 2018 6:35:21 GMT -5
Hey, I just finished this one. I didn't realize the Jaguar had chip music capabilites too, I guess I'll have a look at it later. It's a pretty small library anyway.
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