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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 21:17:37 GMT -5
God, Death Stranding is going to be such a trainwreck. You do not give that man a blank check and just set him loose.
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Post by GamerL on Jan 3, 2018 21:18:52 GMT -5
That's kind of what I mean. It's easy to see how prescient that plotpoint was now, but it didn't mean that back then, and he definitely couldn't have anticipated how things were going to turn out. It's really just another piece of the background, like the PMCs in MGS4. MGS1 made a really great point about the continued threat of nuclear weapons, but that felt more legitimate due to Japan's unique role in the history of nuclear warfare. Something tells me that Kojima ended up feeling like he HAD to make some big point about a major world issue with MGS2 and MGS4, but the follow-through was lacking in both. It's what happens when a person starts to believe their own hype. I don't see how you could interpret the message in MGS2 as anything other than Kojima throwing out a prediction that turned out to be on the money. Remember, Japan was further along in web technology and web culture in 2001 than the US was, so don't look at it solely through the eyes of where the US was at, remember 4chan was just a US version of the Japanese site 2chan that had already been around for years prior to 4chan's 2003 founding. And he was super prescient with the message in MGS1 as well! But you are right about the PMC stuff in MGS4, that was very much of that brief window of time when there was controversy over companies like Blackwater and their operations in Iraq. But that's the key difference I think, 4 was him making a statement on what was currently going on as opposed to making a future prediction, nobody was thinking about nukes in 1998 and no one was thinking about memes in 2001 and to this day they are still relevant messages, but the PMC stuff in 4 is super dated. But I think we can all agree his heart really wasn't in it for 4.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 21:28:28 GMT -5
The game began development in 1998, so it's highly unlikely that much, if any of the internet culture of 2001 played a role in the story's development. Beyond that, the internet didn't have the problems with Nazis, doxxing, swatting, death threats, etc. that it does now. The main point that seems to be expressed about the internet in MGS2 is that there are too many people expressing their thoughts all at once, and each voice is given equal weight due to the fact that the internet allows for instant, global communication. This is really no different from the way people reacted to the advent of radio, television, or even the printing press.
Kojima isn't a god, but he's happy to let people think he is.
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Post by X-pert74 on Jan 3, 2018 21:40:55 GMT -5
God, Death Stranding is going to be such a trainwreck. You do not give that man a blank check and just set him loose. Hehe, even if it turns out to be a trainwreck, that's part of why I wanna see how it turns out :3 Kojima pretty consistently makes games that I find incredibly entertaining to experience, even through any story or gameplay flaws they happen to contain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 21:51:22 GMT -5
For sure. One of the big things Death Stranding has going for it is that it won't have 30 years of continuity to worry about, so even if it turns out that Norman Reedus is pregnant with himself or whatever, it can stand on its own merits.
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Post by GamerL on Jan 3, 2018 21:54:02 GMT -5
The game began development in 1998, so it's highly unlikely that much, if any of the internet culture of 2001 played a role in the story's development. Beyond that, the internet didn't have the problems with Nazis, doxxing, swatting, death threats, etc. that it does now. The main point that seems to be expressed about the internet in MGS2 is that there are too many people expressing their thoughts all at once, and each voice is given equal weight due to the fact that the internet allows for instant, global communication. This is really no different from the way people reacted to the advent of radio, television, or even the printing press. Kojima isn't a god, but he's happy to let people think he is. From what I understand MGS2 underwent a revision from what it originally was, I believe it was going to be set on an aircraft carrier and have just Snake going up against a somehow revived Liquid, so I think it's a bit disingenuous to say what we got in 2001 started in 1998. Also, a lot of the bad stuff about the net goes back further than you may think, the net has long been a haven for hate groups and as for doxxing in 2006 4chan members repeatedly called the parents of a boy who commited suicide supposedly over his lost ipod to harass them, telling them their son was in hell and whatnot (this all started over a misspelling on his online obituary of "an hero" instead of "a hero", at least the shit that goes on today usually has a political motivation instead of nonsensical bullshit like that) My point is, I can definitely see how a guy as smart as Kojima could see the writing on the wall for where the internet was heading, seriously, go back and listen to that codec conversation near the end of the game again if you haven't recently, it's some eye opening stuff. God, Death Stranding is going to be such a trainwreck. You do not give that man a blank check and just set him loose. Hehe, even if it turns out to be a trainwreck, that's part of why I wanna see how it turns out :3 Kojima pretty consistently makes games that I find incredibly entertaining to experience, even through any story or gameplay flaws they happen to contain. Yup, a Kojima game is never boring, that's for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 22:07:52 GMT -5
The only other thing I'll say on the topic is to read the translated game plan.
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Post by Null0x00 on Jan 3, 2018 22:10:11 GMT -5
- I hate MGS3 Snake Eater, and think that MGS2, MGS4 and MGS1 are far superior games. - I can't stand JRPGs, and the only one I've liked enough to beat was Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. - I have never beaten a Zelda game except for Hyrule Warriors. - I actually like Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces. - I could tolerate Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric and Sonic 2006 enough to complete them. - I like Mass Effect Andromeda post-patches. - The House of the Dead games genuinely terrified me as a kid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 22:14:24 GMT -5
My god, you're like a photonegative of everything that's fun.
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Post by Null0x00 on Jan 3, 2018 22:29:22 GMT -5
I'm proud of my video game choices!
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Post by GamerL on Jan 3, 2018 22:32:44 GMT -5
The only other thing I'll say on the topic is to read the translated game plan. Huh, I've read that before a while back but can't remember anything real relevant to the discussion at hand, though I see the date is early 99, is that what you're wanting me to see? - I hate MGS3 Snake Eater, and think that MGS2, MGS4 and MGS1 are far superior games. I think Snake Eater is a little overrated, I don't agree that it's the best in the series, so I would agree about 1 and 2 being superior, but it's definitely better than 4, how could you think otherwise?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 22:36:28 GMT -5
I'm proud of my video game choices! As you should be! Just interesting to see a list of so many contrarian opinions. The only other thing I'll say on the topic is to read the translated game plan. Huh, I've read that before a while back but can't remember anything real relevant to the discussion at hand, though I see the date is early 99, is that what you're wanting me to see? The plot, even at this early stage, is essentially the same thing as we what we got in 2001. On top of that, it mentions the word "internet" precisely once.
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Post by GamerL on Jan 3, 2018 22:37:17 GMT -5
I'm proud of my video game choices! As you should be! Just interesting to see a list of so many contrarian opinions. Huh, I've read that before a while back but can't remember anything real relevant to the discussion at hand, though I see the date is early 99, is that what you're wanting me to see? The plot, even at this early stage, is essentially the same thing as we what we got in 2001. On top of that, it mentions the word "internet" precisely once. lol internet
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Post by Null0x00 on Jan 3, 2018 22:55:43 GMT -5
I think Snake Eater is a little overrated, I don't agree that it's the best in the series, so I would agree about 1 and 2 being superior, but it's definitely better than 4, how could you think otherwise? I went over this before, but here it is again for eternal prosperity: - Bland, relatively boring story that didn't really need telling.
- Terrible overhead camera when the game desperately needed a real 3rd person camera (in the original PS2 version of Snake Eater that I played).
- Awful pressure sensitive controls that make reliable aiming/shooting awkward to impossible.
- Radar items that are nearly useless and drain power too quickly.
- Needing to pause the game and change camos every five steps gets really old really quickly.
- Nearly all bosses can be beaten the same way: use the shotgun.
- Healing requires multiple steps for no real reason.
- Can sustain insane amounts of damage on Normal.
- Lousy 30fps on PS2 at all times (vs MGS2's 60).
That's all I can think off the top of my head. I'm sure the re-releases fix some of these but that wasn't the same game I played. Honestly, I was glad that I finished it so I never had to play it again.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jan 3, 2018 23:03:48 GMT -5
Diablo 2 was mostly a waste of time.
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