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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 7, 2018 11:15:58 GMT -5
www.hardcoregaming101.net/sonic-the-hedgehog/www.hardcoregaming101.net/sonic-the-hedgehog-2/This month marks the start of a rather large feature on the Sonic the Hedgehog games. This has actually been in the works for quite some time, and started last summer around when Sonic Mania came out. It was the first game that my daughter, who was three years old at the time, really wanted to try for herself. So as we played together, eventually I dug out all of the older (2D) games and went through them again too. While we were doing this, I figured it'd be a good plan to write about them too, especially since I hadn't really played them through since I was in middle school (and had never really played much of Sonic & Knuckles either since I had moved onto PC gaming at the time). Anyway, I have no plans to cover the entire Sonic franchise, because it's not only way too huge, but the quality is also...inconsistent, to be kind. My goal was to cover the "core" of the series - that is, all of the numbered entries, plus Sonic CD. Along with this, there are a few of the spin-offs we have covered too, including the obscure arcade game, Sonic 3D Blast, Knuckles Chaotix, and Sonic the Fighters. We'll be getting to do the 8-bit games at some point in the future, and probably Spinball as well. This will all be building up towards the retail release of Sonic Mania later this month, which I'll also eventually have to update with all of the stuff added in the DLC.
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Post by phediuk on Jul 7, 2018 11:49:05 GMT -5
The first Sonic is my favorite of the Genesis games. Starting with Sonic 2, levels become convoluted clusterfucks that drag on for too long, and focus on speed more and more to the detriment of the platforming. There are also start to be a lot more "cheap shots" in the levels, like projectiles suddenly flying from offscreen and enemies attacking the instant they appear. In the first Sonic, it is plausible for a skilled player to beat the whole game without getting hit, a challenge I've come close to completing (Scrap Brain 2 being my bane.) In the later games you pretty much need to cheat to do that. Sonic 1 also has the most cohesive aesthetic of the original games. Also, Tails sucks.
Likewise, I feel Sonic 1 for the Master System is the best of the 8-bit games.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 7, 2018 13:20:12 GMT -5
Spotted a few typos:
"Sega was one of the largest arcade game developers during 80s"
Should be the 80s?
"you fight Robotnik himself, each piloting a different evil contraption"
Should be: each time piloting a different evil contraption, I think
"One of the game’s other big innovation is the damage system"
Should be innovations
"If you beat a stage with more than 50 rings, than a gigantic ring appears"
Than should be then
This one's not a typo, but you do mention the checkpoints two paragraphs above so it's a bit superfluous:
"Still, the levels are regularly populated with signposts that act as checkpoints."
"Chemical Planet is a factory, filled with blue liquid"
It shold be Plant, not planet.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jul 7, 2018 16:48:10 GMT -5
Sonic's quality control is exaggerated at times. Maybe on a single hand how many are truly awful. The universe is not kind to the hedgehog at all.
How deep into modern era are you going? I figure this is about the Classic era only by what you listed.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Jul 7, 2018 17:03:05 GMT -5
The first Sonic is my favorite of the Genesis games. Starting with Sonic 2, levels become convoluted clusterfucks that drag on for too long, and focus on speed more and more to the detriment of the platforming. There are also start to be a lot more "cheap shots" in the levels, like projectiles suddenly flying from offscreen and enemies attacking the instant they appear. In the first Sonic, it is plausible for a skilled player to beat the whole game without getting hit, a challenge I've come close to completing (Scrap Brain 2 being my bane.) In the later games you pretty much need to cheat to do that. Sonic 1 also has the most cohesive aesthetic of the original games. Also, Tails sucks. Likewise, I feel Sonic 1 for the Master System is the best of the 8-bit games. Sonic 1 gets its share of cheap hits in as well. That's a problem in the entire franchise, pretty much, but Sonic 1 is just as guilty of that. In fact, when I played Sonic 2, I got through the first few zones practically scotch-free. The levels starting from Sonic 2 have more paths than Sonic 1 (which also has pretty complex levels most of the time), but they still require you to just go right and get to the end. They just give you more paths to do that on and make the game more interesting on replays. Not sure how anyone can be against that. And I also don't see how the speed takes away from the platforming. There's still just as much platforming, but now there's also platforming that takes advantage of Sonic's speed in addition to the more traditional platforming from Sonic 1. Sonic's quality control is exaggerated at times. Maybe on a single hand how many are truly awful. The universe is not kind to the hedgehog at all. I think part of it also comes from the amount of mediocre-to-bad spin-off Sonic titles there are. But I think it's also deserved how much critisism SEGA gets for how they handle the series (and have, pretty much since day one). I'm playing through the entire classic series, spin-offs included, and having just cleared 1994, there have already been 4 pretty bad games, with 3 more games being kind of mediocre. And I haven't even gotten around to the real infamous games like Labyrinth, Blast or R yet. But also, honestly, it's supposed to be SEGA's flagship series. A series to rival Mario and to be eponymous with the company. To release stuff like '06, Sonic 4, or Blast just does not fit with that idea. Throwing out a well-recieved concept (Generations) for something experimental (Lost World) when you just had something good going, or following up on it not understanding what made it good (Forces) just shows that their quality control IS all over the place. They knew '06 was in a completely unfinished state, but still released it like that. That's a game that shares its title with the very first Sonic game and was supposed to be a major anniversary thing. Spin-offs also have the tendency to feel like after-thought or side projects. Compare Drift and R to Mario Kart, or look at how sloppily Sonic Spinball is made. The whole way the franchise is treated is just very frustrating at times. |
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Post by toei on Jul 7, 2018 21:27:26 GMT -5
The first Sonic is my favorite of the Genesis games. Starting with Sonic 2, levels become convoluted clusterfucks that drag on for too long, and focus on speed more and more to the detriment of the platforming. There are also start to be a lot more "cheap shots" in the levels, like projectiles suddenly flying from offscreen and enemies attacking the instant they appear. In the first Sonic, it is plausible for a skilled player to beat the whole game without getting hit, a challenge I've come close to completing (Scrap Brain 2 being my bane.) In the later games you pretty much need to cheat to do that. Sonic 1 also has the most cohesive aesthetic of the original games. Also, Tails sucks. Likewise, I feel Sonic 1 for the Master System is the best of the 8-bit games. I was going to post something like that. I prefer the first Sonic for all the same reasons. I actually like Marble Zone, even if you don't run all that much, because it's more like a true platformer level. The underwater sections are still a drag, though. Regardless, cool series. I knew it was coming, but it just so happened that that shmuplations interview came out recently, and I replayed through Sonic 1 a few days ago, so I was in the mood to read about Sonic. Looking forward to the Sonic CD article in a few days. Maybe I'll finally get around to playing it. Also, ommadawnyawn pointed out some typos, but I'd add that the water in Chemical Plant is purple, not blue. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 8, 2018 6:51:27 GMT -5
Only Sonic CD comes close to being a "convoluted clusterfuck".
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Post by spanky on Jul 8, 2018 8:22:38 GMT -5
I like Sonic 1 a lot but I do find myself skipping over the Marble Zone about every other time I play it. The Green Hill Zone IMO is one of the best designed levels in all of gaming. It looks and sounds great and is just a ton of fun to play. Then the Marble Zone comes along and just slows things down a little too much.
Glad to see you're not covering the entire franchise for your own sanity. Though it would be fun to watch you descend into madness playing stuff like Sonic and the Black Knight or Sonic 06.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jul 8, 2018 9:14:43 GMT -5
I think part of it also comes from the amount of mediocre-to-bad spin-off Sonic titles there are. But I think it's also deserved how much critisism SEGA gets for how they handle the series (and have, pretty much since day one). I'm playing through the entire classic series, spin-offs included, and having just cleared 1994, there have already been 4 pretty bad games, with 3 more games being kind of mediocre. And I haven't even gotten around to the real infamous games like Labyrinth, Blast or R yet. But also, honestly, it's supposed to be SEGA's flagship series. A series to rival Mario and to be eponymous with the company. To release stuff like '06, Sonic 4, or Blast just does not fit with that idea. Throwing out a well-recieved concept (Generations) for something experimental (Lost World) when you just had something good going, or following up on it not understanding what made it good (Forces) just shows that their quality control IS all over the place. They knew '06 was in a completely unfinished state, but still released it like that. That's a game that shares its title with the very first Sonic game and was supposed to be a major anniversary thing. Spin-offs also have the tendency to feel like after-thought or side projects. Compare Drift and R to Mario Kart, or look at how sloppily Sonic Spinball is made. The whole way the franchise is treated is just very frustrating at times. Not to be treated like a dumpster fire franchise though! And half the games you mentioned for classic era goes on mostly unscathed it's the modern games that some reason people never forget to bash. Personally I think Sonic's racing games are better than at least half of Mario Kart. Riders in particular is more innovative than most mascot racers but for no good reason gets middling reviews. Also Rush on DS is better than NSMB but that's just me talking here. Maybe I should said reputation or something. I dunno. I am tired of the series treated like garbage because so much good gets ignored or whatever I think being a fan of Sonic is frustrating despite liking most of the games. Only Sonic CD comes close to being a "convoluted clusterfuck". It is somewhat designed like that on purpose. Or maybe as best they could within development timeframe. There's spring and ramp traps to help you time travel and the levels are designed for easier backtracking compared to Sonic 1 and 2. The most screwed up zone would be Wacky Workbench. Its probably the most annoying zone in the classic era based on its gimmick. It still throws me off on time attack. Stardust Speedway is close second if only for the maze-like tunnels. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Jul 8, 2018 11:05:34 GMT -5
I thought there were too many cases where it was either hard to find a good spot to travel or I would travel by accident when I didn't want to. Overall there's too much bouncing around and not getting where you need to in CD, and the controls/physics are a bit worse as well. Haven't played the most recent port though.
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Post by blackdrazon on Jul 8, 2018 15:26:43 GMT -5
I feel I should note the articles are linked backwards, Sonic 2 being first and Sonic 1 being second. The main page also seems to be under the impression that Sonic 1 is "article 3 of 2."
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Post by dsparil on Jul 9, 2018 11:49:51 GMT -5
I love Sonic CD so much. As someone without any consoles at the time, the Windows version was a great birthday present! Not mentioned in the article is that it also has a high frame rate mode. I always thought that mode looked a little weird.
Also, I take issue with this section: The good future doesn't have any enemies.
One of the great things about Sonic CD is that every single time period has a compete level even if you can't normally access those parts. I had a lot of fun playing every level that way through the level select.
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Post by Discoalucard on Jul 9, 2018 12:57:48 GMT -5
I love Sonic CD so much. As someone without any consoles at the time, the Windows version was a great birthday present! Not mentioned in the article is that it also has a high frame rate mode. I always thought that mode looked a little weird. Also, I take issue with this section: The good future doesn't have any enemies. What does that do? I know the frame rate is smoother on the bonus stages but the frame rate of the original version was just fine. Maybe it's for monitor compatibility? And by tangible benefit to visiting the Good Future, I mean it doesn't affect the endings or really give you anything for going there, since exploring it is a reward in and of itself. |
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Post by dsparil on Jul 9, 2018 13:14:30 GMT -5
It's hard to describe exactly. I guess the closest comparison are TVs that do motion interpolation. The animation is smoother but it doesn't feel right. It was a simple toggle with a function key I think. Edit: The manual only says this: Sonic Smooth / Sonic Fast (F6) If you have a Pentium 133 or greater, F6 smooth will enable the game to move at 60 frames per second. Source (PDF p.4, manual p.8)Edit 2: Amy also isn't called Sally in the PC version. |
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Jul 10, 2018 6:02:33 GMT -5
ZenithianHeroI like a lot of the ideas in Sonic's various racing games (the transformations in Racing Transformed, the drifting mechanic in Zero Gravity, hell I even kinda like Sonic R's gameplay), but it never seems that everything really comes together in these games. Even Transformed, which is pretty good, suffers from bad track and item design and just could benefit from being a more straight-forward kart racer. Only Sonic CD comes close to being a "convoluted clusterfuck". If you judge it as a S2/S3&K style platformer the stages are really weird. But for what Sonic CD is, the stages are perfect. With the exception of Wacky Workbench, which is just annoying as hell, it has pretty much perfect gameplay/level design synergy. I'd say that as far as Sonic goes, only 3&K and Mania are on the same level for that balance.
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