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Post by windfisch on Nov 12, 2020 21:17:11 GMT -5
I didn't play Blast much. 3D Blast on the other hand, I enjoyed. The game looked ugly and janky, since it came out so late (1996) must been a quick project of theirs to rival Donkey Kong Land. I should give it another chance if I see it in a future Sonic collection. Of the Game Gear games I'll say I didn't mind Tails Sky Patrol. It is a bizarre game that was obviously not a Sonic game in development and is harder than it should be and I kinda respect that? It's a dumb little game in a good way. 3D Blast is pretty decent, especially the "Director's Cut".
And yeah, (2D) Blast doesn't look as good as most other GG Sonic titles. The prerendered sprites do take some getting used to. It still has its visually impressive moments, though. The pyramid stages in particular look rather pretty, featuring sand particles, atmospheric backgrounds with a neat flickering-torchlight effect.
I still have to get a hang of Sky Patrol. At the very least it is a rather interesting game.
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Post by blackdrazon on Nov 12, 2020 22:40:35 GMT -5
In my experience, the most maligned classic Mega Man games are 5 and II for Game Boy, and I like both! Until I'm playing them, when I remember what they're actually like! But as soon as I'm done I decide I like them again! This probably says something about me. I've never heard anyone hate on MMVGB. If anything, it's seen as hidden gem that is too often overlooked. Whoops, well, that's good because I didn't say V GB! I said 5 (on the NES) and II on GB! I realize now that I wasn't very clear, but Mega Man fans use arabic numerals for the NES games and Roman numerals for the GB games.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Nov 13, 2020 5:27:11 GMT -5
RE: Sonic. Sonic definitely has some underrated games. Can't chime in on 3D Blast or Blast, but Sonic 1 8-bit (which I consider better than Sonic 1 on Genesis) and Sonic Triple Trouble are both really good, though I'm not sure if they're 'black sheep' per se. Sky Patrol is pretty good, windfisch, however it's also super brief, so it's over before you know it (kind of a recurring issue with 8-bit Sonic titles, I found). Whoops, well, that's good because I didn't say V GB! I said 5 (on the NES) and II on GB! I realize now that I wasn't very clear, but Mega Man fans use arabic numerals for the NES games and Roman numerals for the GB games. Oops, I read a bit too sloppily there. Should've picked up on that.
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Post by retr0gamer on Nov 13, 2020 7:33:36 GMT -5
I finished Sonic 1 and 2 on the Master System a few weeks ago. Really enjoyed them. They aren't as good as the best games on the NES but they are well worth playing, even Sonic 2 which is reviled on Game Gear but plays so much better on Master System (even if it feels very rushed at times).
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Post by dsparil on Nov 13, 2020 7:57:26 GMT -5
3D Blast is a lot better as a Saturn/PC game. The nicer graphics and sound add a whole lot. I haven't tried the Director's Cut patch, but those versions didn't feel like they needed something like that. I think 3D Blast on Saturn gets some hate for not being the Sonic game people wanted (and maybe already played), but it's still pretty good.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 13, 2020 10:06:55 GMT -5
🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 I think the 8 bit Sonic titles sort of have a "black sheep"-status in general. But out of those, Sonic 1 usually seems to be the one getting the most praise. I would agree, it's a great game and the best of the bunch. It also has one of the best soundtracks for the MS/GG.
Weirdly enough, it's the Game Gear version I prefer, as it is slightly more polished in terms of gameplay (e.g. no screen border kill in the vertical waterfall stage) and visuals (more background details, like warning signs, rotating flowers and some tasty looking fruit.)
In my experience Sonic 2 8 bit is one of the more divisive Sonic games. Personally, I like that is shows a good deal of playful creativity. The results may be a bit gimmicky at times ("rushed" seems appropriate in that regard), but at the same time rather fun: The seal boss, for example, is super easy, but the way it bounces Sonic on it's nose is just so adorable. Alongside Blast, it's also the only 8 bit Sonic that doesn't have any slowdown issues to speak of. And the soundtrack is the second best of those titles.
Granted, the GG version is rather frustrating at first, it definitely requires some memorization. But over time even that iteration has grown on me. Similar to Sonic 1, it even adds some visual elements not found in the MS game: The second "Aqua" zone now looks like it was actually under water, featuring a rising water-level effect and a blue tint. Groundbreaking stuff!
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Post by retr0gamer on Nov 13, 2020 11:28:17 GMT -5
It's weird that the water effect is in Sonic 1 and not Sonic 2. I could chalk that up to it being a rush job but I'd say the main reason was the water levels in Sonic 1 ran in slow motion because of it!
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Post by windfisch on Nov 13, 2020 15:33:21 GMT -5
retr0gamer Yes, that is weird indeed. I don't think slowdown is the reason though. Sonic 1 has slowdown issues in any stage and on both systems. It's just even more noticeable when combined with the water physics. Instead my best guess is that the Game Gear version was the lead platform for 2 and that due to slight hardware differences, like the higher overall color palette on the GG, the effect could not be carried over directly to the Master System and was then dropped out of time constraints. However, even without the rising water level effect they could've just opted for a blue tint.
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Post by ZenithianHero on Nov 13, 2020 19:06:02 GMT -5
I wish the Master System versions were rereleased more often. Knowing that version has an easier Under Ground boss, every time I play the GG version I must have a 50% of getting past that zone.
A strange game. I don't believe that is the original zone order and Tails was obviously meant to be playable but must had cut him so they can reach deadline and give Genesis Sonic 2 the spotlight of Tails gameplay. Also, "You Can Do Anything" plays in this game. The development cycle for Sonic 1 and 2 8Bit must be fascinating to overlap with the console games. I wish we learn more about these games.
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Post by personman on Nov 14, 2020 2:13:02 GMT -5
Donkey Kong 64 immediately comes to mind. Sure, it was mostly just a slap dash compilation of ideas and assets left on the cutting room floor from Banjo Kazooie but I had some of my fondest memories with it growing up with my 64.
That said I wouldn't recommend it. It is the boiling point of unabashed bloat that Rare's catalogue had been rapidly climbing with and it has some dumb padding (ok, I'm happy you guys are proud of your past but don't force me to play Jet Pac and the classic Donkey Kong to progress you jerks). Plus I get why many dedicated fans of the series would scoff at it. The games are often celebrated for their atmosphere and music and DK64 just has nothing like it. The first major area feels like a half hearted shoe in at best to just tell people 'Yeah, its Donkey Kong, trust us, buckle in."
But still, I thought it had very fun maps to run around in and just goof off and while the ludicrous amount of stuff to collect is a joke in of itself, well I enjoy that kind of busy work. I'm weird, I'll admit it.
Besides, it gave us the infamous rap which spurned on a legion dumb jokes, and it gave speed runners so many hilarious ways to break the game.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 14, 2020 13:23:58 GMT -5
I wish the Master System versions were rereleased more often. Knowing that version has an easier Under Ground boss, every time I play the GG version I must have a 50% of getting past that zone. A strange game. I don't believe that is the original zone order and Tails was obviously meant to be playable but must had cut him so they can reach deadline and give Genesis Sonic 2 the spotlight of Tails gameplay. Also, "You Can Do Anything" plays in this game. The development cycle for Sonic 1 and 2 8Bit must be fascinating to overlap with the console games. I wish we learn more about these games. The Master System version of 2 is a much better overall experience. Just finished replaying it on Game Gear and all the blind jumps make me want to retract my previous speculation of the latter being the lead platform.
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Post by spanky on Nov 14, 2020 14:46:16 GMT -5
Donkey Kong 64 immediately comes to mind. Sure, it was mostly just a slap dash compilation of ideas and assets left on the cutting room floor from Banjo Kazooie but I had some of my fondest memories with it growing up with my 64. That said I wouldn't recommend it. It is the boiling point of unabashed bloat that Rare's catalogue had been rapidly climbing with and it has some dumb padding (ok, I'm happy you guys are proud of your past but don't force me to play Jet Pac and the classic Donkey Kong to progress you jerks). Plus I get why many dedicated fans of the series would scoff at it. The games are often celebrated for their atmosphere and music and DK64 just has nothing like it. The first major area feels like a half hearted shoe in at best to just tell people 'Yeah, its Donkey Kong, trust us, buckle in." But still, I thought it had very fun maps to run around in and just goof off and while the ludicrous amount of stuff to collect is a joke in of itself, well I enjoy that kind of busy work. I'm weird, I'll admit it. Besides, it gave us the infamous rap which spurned on a legion dumb jokes, and it gave speed runners so many hilarious ways to break the game. Donkey Kong 64 is one of my personal most despised games. Just nothing redeeming or interesting about it except it's really fucking long. I got the game for Christmas when it came out - very excited to blow a couple weeks in front of the TV, the same way I had with Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie. When I got to the factory world (the 3rd level I think?), after I got killed by an invincible robot I had an epiphany - I wasn't having fun. Not only was this game not fun, I was going to have to play through each level FIVE TIMES to make progress. I still slogged through, hating it the entire time. Just a bunch of boring mini games connected by tunnels. When I beat the game, my percentage just barely cracked 50 percent. I put the game on the shelf and didn't touch it until a few months later when I just sold the darn thing. For similar games before that, I'd 100%+ complete it then immediately start a new game. It killed 3D platformers for me until I played Mario Galaxy 2 a decade later. I'd say playing the original Donkey Kong and Jetpac are actually the highlights of it.
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Nov 14, 2020 15:24:25 GMT -5
Ooh, I got a whole bunch of these.
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney - This one's definitely a black sheep in terms of its tone, with its subversions of traditional AA tropes and characterizations resulting in a more morally ambiguous game compared to the Phoenix Wright games and even AJ's own sequels. It makes for a uniquely compelling, if flawed adventure that I wish had been followed up instead of doubling down on older ideas.
Doom's PS1 port and Doom 64 - While mechanically similar to the original games, the drastically altered presentation creates a pair of games that feel very different. The new sound effects, more dramatic coloured lighting, and nightmarishly ambient music by Aubrey Hodges turns Doom into a horror action game instead of an action game with gruesome imagery, and I've always felt this complemented the labyrinthe levels, monster closets and key-hunting in ways that the original presentation didn't. These games represent what Doom is to me.
Sonic 3D Blast - Is it lazy to link to the HG101 review I wrote for this game a while back? I kinda said everything I feel about the game there, and I've always felt it got an unfair rap from people who wanted something else. I'd say the Mega Drive and Saturn versions are equally good, but would particularly recommend the Director's Cut hack for presenting the game as the collectathon it's always been.
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (GBA) - Been playing this recently for the first time in many years, and I really dug it. I feel all the mechanics (creating decks, fighting enemies, using cards with different properties and numbers to open new rooms) come together quite nicely, and it's the kind of game that's designed to be played in quick bursts while ensuring you can make some progress and can save whenever you like. I kinda reckon the game's poorer reception in recent years really does come down to its PS2 remake similar to Rockman and Forte's GBA port, but I can't say for certain since I don't have any way of playing it.
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon - My favourite of the Igavania-styled games by a country mile. This is mainly because of how much emphasis it puts on skill compared to item equipment and stat upgrades, which is the opposite of most Iga games. It makes exploring the castle, acquiring new powers and attacks, and taking on enemies a lot more satisfying for me. I understand why the random drops - particularly for the cards - bother other people, but I didn't mind too much. Also, the music is rad (even if it is borrowed from other games).
Resident Evil Gaiden - I finally got round to playing this, and I genuinely want to ask: how and why was this considered the worst Resident Evil? It's pretty awesome. It translates the mechanics of the original games onto the GBC really well, keeping in mind the limited number of buttons and the fact that it's a handheld game, and creates for a very unique take that I haven't seen much elsewhere. Heck, I actually found this more approachable than the other games. I did get stuck at a point where I had no ammo and too many enemies, but I enjoyed it enough that I want to start over and improve my performance - just like a classic Resident Evil game.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 14, 2020 16:01:40 GMT -5
I definitely agree with Circle of the Moon. I keep forgetting it's considered one of the weaker entries because it was such an impressive launch game and me and my friends loved it bitd. Not that there aren't any issues with it.
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Post by windfisch on Nov 14, 2020 19:13:21 GMT -5
Apollo Chungus I first played Doom 1 and 2 on PC. I few year later 64 arrived, which I loved just as much. It's one of the lesser known entries, but I've never seen anything but praise for it. So I'd say it's a "gray sheep" at best. The PS1 version, however, I experienced much later. I consider it a good port, but at the same time it doesn't sit quite right with me. The ambient music I associate solely with 64 (I know it was on PS1 first) and the visuals and stage layouts with the DOS games, so the combination feels oddly weird to me. I'm also not too keen on the colored lighting effects in the PS1 version. In the DOS games, lighting was simple yet classy, while rather nunaced and sophisticated on the N64. Lighting on PS1 Doom feels kind of cheap by comparison to either of those. It falls somewhere in the middle and relies too much on primary colors for my taste. Circle of the Moon I appreciate (much more than Harmony of Dissonance). But it's a fanmade hack, turning cards into collectibles, that makes me really like it.
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