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Post by lurker on Nov 14, 2020 11:03:21 GMT -5
With Vice City, I got stuck at the first RC helicopter mission and the first sniper mission.
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Nov 14, 2020 15:02:35 GMT -5
For me, the one that comes to mind is The Legend of Zelda. Not the original game; I mean nearly every game in the series that I've played up until now. So that's the original, Adventure of Link, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Minish Cap. I've only attempted to play Twilight Princess once years ago and I actually managed to beat Link Between Worlds on my first attempt, but the series has consistently alluded me enough that I haven't gotten much further than maybe halfway through them.
Either I have no idea where to go next or I end up playing something else around that time, and I lose interest for long enough that I'm utterly lost if or when I come back that I feel compelled to start over. I must've played through the opening 20 minutes of OOT at least a dozen times since 2006 and likely a similar amount for the first dungeon in Link's Awakening since 2010, which then leads to its own problem of getting bored with redoing the same bits again and again, so I lose interest again and the cycle repeats.
I want to like the Zelda games so much, but there's always something about them mechanically that puts me off from bothering to beat them if they don't become a total cakewalk (which is the only reason I managed to beat Link Between Worlds). There are aspects of them I individually adore; the sea-faring antics of Wind Waker, or the minimalist music in Link's Awakening; and I can trace my interest for action-RPGs and similar games such as Okami and Beyond Good and Evil back to Zelda. However, I've yet to find one over the last 14 years that really gets me thinking "Man, this game's so awesome I just gotta beat it!" Granted, I haven't yet played the Oracle games, so maybe there'll be something in them that grabs me.
As for other games: Final Fantasy X (6 or so times; never made it past the highway section, I believe), Kingdom Hearts (4 or 5 times; my most recent attempt got me up to Riku in Hollow Bastion, and I'm fine leaving it at that), Dark Souls (3 or 4 times; the gameplay loops are simply not for me and I'm okay with that)
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 14, 2020 16:05:49 GMT -5
Link's Awakening is pretty concise and linear compared to most of the others, and with a bit more handholding than its prequels but not too much, so it should keep you going unless you just don't like the overall formula much.
The Oracle games are almost like mods for LA, but still good.
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Post by toei on Nov 14, 2020 16:53:57 GMT -5
Link's Awakening is pretty concise and linear compared to most of the others, and with a bit more handholding than its prequels but not too much, so it should keep you going unless you just don't like the overall formula much. The Oracle games are almost like mods for LA, but still good. What? The Oracle games feel a lot closer to action RPGs, with more of a story, towns, etc. Link's Awakening is pretty much all dungeons. I can never remember which one it is I preferred, but either way the other one was still decent. I probably liked Minish Cap the most, though. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 14, 2020 18:27:40 GMT -5
They use the same engine and similar level and world design, not that I've beaten any of them yet and I only tried one of them briefly so far. I don't remember any real RPG elements though.
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Nov 14, 2020 20:01:38 GMT -5
ommadawnyawn2
I know Awakening is generally simpler, but I was (and still kinda am) dumb when it comes to navigating overworlds in these kinds 2D games. It's not a crippling weakness or anything, but it did trip me enough that unless I regularly received a bunch of information explicitly clarifying stuff, I tended to get lost very easily. Replaying Link's Awakening as many times as I did over the years has helped me to better understand the game and that kind of navigation in general, and my most recent playthrough some years ago got me as far as the fifth dungeon.
However, I think I've replayed those early sections too many times, because I find myself getting bored at the prospect at doing all that stuff again (except meeting Marin at the beach - legit my favourite scene in the series and I will always make time for it) and end up not bothering. Yes, it's pretty dang stupid, but I half-wonder if the only way I'd beat Link's Awakening at this point is to play some fan-hack that changes the overworld and dungeon layouts so I don't have that same issue. I made one last attempt in 2019 to replay the game, because it would've been the tenth anniversary of my first attempt quite soon and I didn't like the idea of having played a game several times over a decade but never having beaten it. However, I gave up not too far into it, and I realized that I'm not one for really worrying about beating a game anymore.
If I complete a game, that's pretty awesome. But if I choose to give up for whatever reason and never find the urge to go back to it, that's pretty alright too. Hopefully, there's something from that game that positively affects my life going forward - and there's plenty of that with Link's Awakening. The overworld theme that plays when you don't have a sword, the weird cameos from Mr Wright and his romance with the goat in Animal Village, the aforementioned Marin scene, the music in general, being able to jump around, dog walking the Chain Chomp... I may not ever beat Link's Awakening, but playing it so dang much has really made me appreciate it. |
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Post by Null0x00 on Nov 14, 2020 22:28:47 GMT -5
Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. I just hate the chaining in those games, specially in Radiant Silvergun where you're forced to do it to power-up your guns.
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Post by Woody Alien on Nov 15, 2020 6:47:04 GMT -5
Since you ask, I did check the last year before making this thread and didn't find anything. If there was one older than that, I think it's fair game to create a new thread. I'm not sure if there's a policy that favours reviving old threads here rather than creating new ones, and if there is, I apologise. However, my interest in creating threads here is to foster discussion and I don't think reviving old threads does that. excelsior no, I actually have to apologise, I had a brainfart and confused this topic's title with another one. There wasn't actually another one like this! I was confusing it somehow with the one about "black sheep" in a series. I must have been tired...
I also must say that I've dropped Monster Boy since there were starting to be too many puzzles for my taste and I thought it was going to be a more "arcadey" experience a la WBIII remake, but I'll probably start it over soon...
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Post by spanky on Nov 15, 2020 7:35:28 GMT -5
Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga. I just hate the chaining in those games, specially in Radiant Silvergun where you're forced to do it to power-up your guns. This is me...but with SHMUPs in general. I've played tons of them multiple times but I've only beaten two that I can think of off the top of my head - Life Force for the NES (with the 30 life code) and one of the Parodius games for the Super Famicom (because it's pretty easy). I always get the itch to play them though. I just fired up Gradius III the other day. For me they always represent gaming at it's most hardcore. Just a solitary spaceship and thousands of enemies and bullets being thrown at you at once. There's something really pure about that experience you know? And watching your pea shooter equipped spaceship turn into a heavily shielded wall of death is so satisfying... It's just that first time I lose a life and lose all my powerups, I do NOT have the motivation to claw myself back to where I was, especially if it's a checkpoint based shooter instead of an instant respawn. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 15, 2020 10:35:49 GMT -5
Radiant Silvergun on Saturn is unusual in that you can keep trying and make it save your levels so it becomes easier. I found it more fun the second time through actually, it's a pretty brutal game that requires strict memorization without making use of this. ommadawnyawn2
I know Awakening is generally simpler, but I was (and still kinda am) dumb when it comes to navigating overworlds in these kinds 2D games. It's not a crippling weakness or anything, but it did trip me enough that unless I regularly received a bunch of information explicitly clarifying stuff, I tended to get lost very easily. Replaying Link's Awakening as many times as I did over the years has helped me to better understand the game and that kind of navigation in general, and my most recent playthrough some years ago got me as far as the fifth dungeon.
However, I think I've replayed those early sections too many times, because I find myself getting bored at the prospect at doing all that stuff again (except meeting Marin at the beach - legit my favourite scene in the series and I will always make time for it) and end up not bothering. Yes, it's pretty dang stupid, but I half-wonder if the only way I'd beat Link's Awakening at this point is to play some fan-hack that changes the overworld and dungeon layouts so I don't have that same issue. I made one last attempt in 2019 to replay the game, because it would've been the tenth anniversary of my first attempt quite soon and I didn't like the idea of having played a game several times over a decade but never having beaten it. However, I gave up not too far into it, and I realized that I'm not one for really worrying about beating a game anymore. I guess if you grew up with or have gotten used to quest logs and/or map markers it can be tricky at times, and taking some notes outside of the game might help. If it doesn't matter to you then it's not a problem obviously, but I do think the later dungeons are some of the better ones in the series and would at least check out how the story ends. |
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Nov 15, 2020 11:09:29 GMT -5
I know Awakening is generally simpler, but I was (and still kinda am) dumb when it comes to navigating overworlds in these kinds 2D games. It's not a crippling weakness or anything, but it did trip me enough that unless I regularly received a bunch of information explicitly clarifying stuff, I tended to get lost very easily. Replaying Link's Awakening as many times as I did over the years has helped me to better understand the game and that kind of navigation in general, and my most recent playthrough some years ago got me as far as the fifth dungeon.
LA just has a very annoying overworld to traverse, especially in the B&W original. At least, I assume it's less of a problem in the DX or Switch versions, I haven't played those. It might be worth trying one of those versions I don't think it's that much simpler than other Zelda games. It's certainly shorter and has less story/scripted elements. But the overworld and dungeons are probably more on the complex side compared to other Zeldas. I don't post very often, but this topic enticed me. Like several of you, I've never finished Phantasy Star 4 for the same reasons. I really should, but turn-based games are not my favorite. I've also put Phantasy Star 2 down on more than one occasion, yet I've finished the extremely tedious original on SMS. Go figure. I've also completed the original PS, which is very bad, even though I've dropped various other, much better, RPGs. When you contextualize it like this, it was an even bigger waste of time. |
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Nov 15, 2020 13:01:22 GMT -5
I guess if you grew up with or have gotten used to quest logs and/or map markers it can be tricky at times, and taking some notes outside of the game might help. If it doesn't matter to you then it's not a problem obviously, but I do think the later dungeons are some of the better ones in the series and would at least check out how the story ends. I don't think it's necessarily to do with quest logs and map markers, and more to do with conveyance of the information needed to make progress. Link's Awakening is the kind of the game that does tell you what you need to do; it's just that it only gives you that info from one specific sign or character in one specific location that you might accidentally overlook. (There is the in-game helpline, but I don't remember it being much of a help for the most part.) For example, I know that you need to walk Chain Chomp to eat up the plants blocking the entrance to the second dungeon, but I don't know if there was anything in the game that actually explained that they could eat those plants or that I should go to the swamp where they lurk.
I guess the game invites you to be naturally curious about these things and check them out yourself, at which point you do find the information needed (either implied or stated outright). In that case, while I wasn't used to quest logs or map markers, I wasn't used to having to really figure those things out for myself. That certainly would've tripped me up, but it's something that I've mostly overcome pretty well in the years since. Now if only I could reapply that learned instinct to Link's Awakening and tackle it on its own terms, rather than using my memory of walkthroughs and the like to get to the more unfamiliar parts of the game. Maybe I should see if there's a fan hack that changes the overworld and dungeon design/progression while keeping everything else from the original intact...
EDIT: Yes, there is a hack that changes the layouts! It's New Awakening by katage and seems to do pretty much exactly what I asked for. I'm in the middle of a couple other games at the moment, but I'm definitely gonna give this a look in the near future: www.romhacking.net/hacks/1939/
LA just has a very annoying overworld to traverse, especially in the B&W original. At least, I assume it's less of a problem in the DX or Switch versions, I haven't played those. It might be worth trying one of those versions I don't think it's that much simpler than other Zelda games. It's certainly shorter and has less story/scripted elements. But the overworld and dungeons are probably more on the complex side compared to other Zeldas. I've only ever played the DX version, and apart from fixing various glitches that I'm nowhere near crafty enough to trigger anyway, the overworld's the same as the original. The addition of colour makes it easier to parse the geometry and whatnot, so that's probably the best way of navigating the world without radically redesigning elements of it. Funnily enough, while the moving camera in the remake would likely make it easier to orient myself in relation to other areas, I actually dislike how much it robs the overworld of the scale that was implied in the original. Koholint Island genuinely felt like an enormous place, and having the world divided into individual screens where you couldn't see outside each screen sold that idea for me. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Nov 15, 2020 14:11:57 GMT -5
I guess if you grew up with or have gotten used to quest logs and/or map markers it can be tricky at times, and taking some notes outside of the game might help. If it doesn't matter to you then it's not a problem obviously, but I do think the later dungeons are some of the better ones in the series and would at least check out how the story ends. I don't think it's necessarily to do with quest logs and map markers, and more to do with conveyance of the information needed to make progress. Link's Awakening is the kind of the game that does tell you what you need to do; it's just that it only gives you that info from one specific sign or character in one specific location that you might accidentally overlook. (There is the in-game helpline, but I don't remember it being much of a help for the most part.) For example, I know that you need to walk Chain Chomp to eat up the plants blocking the entrance to the second dungeon, but I don't know if there was anything in the game that actually explained that they could eat those plants or that I should go to the swamp where they lurk.
I guess the game invites you to be naturally curious about these things and check them out yourself, at which point you do find the information needed (either implied or stated outright). In that case, while I wasn't used to quest logs or map markers, I wasn't used to having to really figure those things out for myself. That certainly would've tripped me up, but it's something that I've mostly overcome pretty well in the years since. Now if only I could reapply that learned instinct to Link's Awakening and tackle it on its own terms, rather than using my memory of walkthroughs and the like to get to the more unfamiliar parts of the game. Maybe I should see if there's a fan hack that changes the overworld and dungeon design/progression while keeping everything else from the original intact...
EDIT: Yes, there is a hack that changes the layouts! It's New Awakening by katage and seems to do pretty much exactly what I asked for. I'm in the middle of a couple other games at the moment, but I'm definitely gonna give this a look in the near future: www.romhacking.net/hacks/1939/ I'm pretty sure one of the main chars, the helpline guy or the chain chomp's owner mentions what to do with it, if not the game narration itself after freeing it. That or it's just a case of not being able to really go anywhere else at that point due to not being able to lift rocks so when they imply you can keep it for a while and use it for something, you can easily connect the dots. I don't remember having an issue at that point in the game. Would personally recommend against playing a hack before even finishing the original though it did seem pretty good from what I played of it, testing it out for a bit. |
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Post by Apollo Chungus on Nov 15, 2020 15:52:30 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure one of the main chars, the helpline guy or the chain chomp's owner mentions what to do with it, if not the game narration itself after freeing it. That or it's just a case of not being able to really go anywhere else at that point due to not being able to lift rocks so when they imply you can keep it for a while and use it for something, you can easily connect the dots. I don't remember having an issue at that point in the game. Would personally recommend against playing a hack before even finishing the original though it did seem pretty good from what I played of it, testing it out for a bit. You're probably right that the game does give information more helpfully than I suggested. My intent with the last post was to try and explain why I kept getting stuck at the game back when I was 14-20. I didn't mean that to come across as how I feel about the game now, and I apologize that I didn't make that more clear.
In regards to the whole hack thing, I'd normally agree with you and would always encourage anyone to try the original first in any situation. However, I do know a fair bit about the later parts of Link's Awakening due to a mix of cultural osmosis and my own researching into it out of curiosity, and I'm so disinterested in playing through the opening portions for the dozenth time that I honestly think the only way I'm ever going to beat the original is to have a save file that starts at the beginning of the fifth or sixth dungeon so I don't have to psyche myself up for another repeat of the same several hours.
Doing that hack would be my best shot at attempting a complete playthrough of some version of Link's Awakening at this point; one that retains the spontaneity, puzzle solving and exploration typically associated with Zelda games, and not through cruising on what can feel like muscle memory after too many aborted attempts to count.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2020 16:04:52 GMT -5
I also must say that I've dropped Monster Boy since there were starting to be too many puzzles for my taste and I thought it was going to be a more "arcadey" experience a la WBIII remake, but I'll probably start it over soon...
No worries Woody. I don't share your opinion on Monster Boy since I enjoy the puzzles, but I can see where you are coming from. With the series arcade background it would be fair to expect a lighter more action focused approach and given how many similar games there are now with puzzle elements, a more arcade style game would actually be novel. --------- Apollo Chungus - doesn't sound like you particularly are interested in finishing Link's Awakening but if you want to revisit the game with a more fresh experience I recommend the Switch remake. It is incredibly faithful, whilst bringing a new aesthetic. The minimalist soundtrack is just wonderful. |
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