Retro Metroidvania explorations

[ommadawnyawn2]

I'll check it out, probably (I didn't actually finish Fantastic, because yeah, too many effin' stars in it!). I played the MD/GEN version, which seemed to play the same as the others besides missing one of the action segments from the 8-bit versions.

Some updates based on feedback:
ibb.co/Tmwgh7t
ibb.co/kJyRcp7

[ommadawnyawn2]

Latest version. I decided to not have the game lists in the tree itself and make the tree cover more ground across time based on some feedback. I also added a subgenres key to the site. platformadventure.weebly.com/subgenres-key.html

What would be a good namesake for open world games with strong MV elements? I'm thinking System Shock for Horror or Survival Horror. 

[Deleted]

That definitely looks cleaner. Afraid I don't know the software you are using but you could perhaps have lists linked or appear as you hover over an image.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Thanks! It's mindmaster, just something free I found. It uses a format not supported by google drive so uploading something interactive doesn't seem to work (I'll see if I can move it over to a format that does at some point), but I did add most of these to the relevant entries on the site, linking to the subgenres key page.

[ommadawnyawn2]

So I've updated the La-Mulana entry for those who are interested. I ended up pretty torn about it as I didn't enjoy most of the puzzle design and some old school aspects regarding grinding and controls, but did enjoy the world and its aesthetics, certain puzzles and abilities, and most combat. I'll probably try the remake later on.

Currently playing Tomba 2. 

Also made this MV flowchart based on the subreddit definition:


Personally I'm not as strict about forced backtracking, having a fully interconnected world and non-linearity. 

[Deleted]

That's really cool - but I want to see you use it to prove people wrong and put them in their place when they get their genre's wrong. It could be a real 'F-you' moment (I was way too British to actually swear online and I actually feel a little uncomfotable with typing as much as 'F').

[ommadawnyawn2]

I bloody well will try to!

This approach might not end most arguments as people will disagree on the most basic or seemingly trivial things in my experience, but at least it saves time.

[Deleted]

I've got your back. Now we just need one for people who claim Zelda as an RPG.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Latest updates to the site: Batman: Arkham Asylum (PC, 2009), Aquaria (PC, 2007), Tomba! 2 (PS1, 1999), La-Mulana (PC, 2005)

[ommadawnyawn2]

Latest update: Legacy of the Wizard (NES)

Chibi Robo or Deus Ex next probably.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Latest updates: Chibi-Robo! (GC) and Battle of Olympus (NES)

Really enjoyed the setting and story of Chibi-Robo, but was kind of bored with most of the gameplay and didn't care for the battery mechanic in combination with the day/night cycle. I will probably try the NDS sequel though as it supposedly improves some things in that regard and has been fan translated.


Also did a preliminary count for 1984-2001 of player char gender/sex representation in MVs, something I was curious about. 

[Deleted]

I have lost all respect for you Omma...

[Deleted]

Ok, more serious answer - the data on representation is really interesting. It shows expected results but seeing the actual figure shows how little female representation there actually is. I think it would be interesting to further see how this progresses to modern times. Honestly, I'd expext similar results since usually inclusion is dealt with using avatar or selectable characters now, but genuine protagonists remain male in most cases. Considering video games are still at a point where female leads are considered diversity, significant representation of other deserving groups are a long way off.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Feb 15, 2021 14:27:36 GMT -5 excelsior said:

Ok, more serious answer - the data on representation is really interesting. It shows expected results but seeing the actual figure shows how little female representation there actually is. I think it would be interesting to further see how this progresses to modern times. Honestly, I'd expext similar results since usually inclusion is dealt with using avatar or selectable characters now, but genuine protagonists remain male in most cases. Considering video games are still at a point where female leads are considered diversity, significant representation of other deserving groups are a long way off.

Yeah. Will update it as I've played more '00s games for sure but I think the change will be fairly small up until the '10s. I wanna say I have seen a lot of female protags in MVs in recent years, and speaking with the guy behind metroidvaniareview.com about this for a bit, he did a quick check for all the games they've reviewed on there and it looks a lot different at around 27% female protags, 50% male protags, 30% "androgynous" as they put it, and less than 10% selectable, from a total of 169 games. 

But that's just the base numbers and I think actually in-depth, interesting characters are still pretty scarce (across the board honestly, MVs are often more gameplay- and environmental storytelling-focused too). That also becomes more subjective though, what you see as a good character, and I guess a lot of people like more of a blank slate action hero type that they can project whatever onto as with the old school Samus. Then there's questions like how many games are actually good, and whether that number needs to be that big since most people tend to stick with a handful of games anyway. So there's various different angles to it along with what you said too. 

[Deleted]

I am pleasantly surprised that the presence of female protagonists seems to be on the rise in this genre. I wonder how it compares to others in the industry also. With the pioneering series having a female lead I wonder how much impact that has on the presence of female protagonists. I think the playerbase for the genre also is very much formed of hobbyists and I don't notice the same toxicity that you see in say the AAA space. Perhaps the playerbase for platform adventures are more willing to embrace various protagonists than others? I am just speculating here.

What you say about androgynous heroes and quality is also interesting, though I would less consider quality of the game itself and more quality of the heroines presented in them. On the androgynous side I'm looking at what I've played in the genre in recent years and find the amount of games wherein you play a recognisable gendered human character are pretty infrequent. I'm just going to touch on a few heroine characters I have experience with.

Samus - as you say very much presented as a blank state. Whilst she is clearly a strong character there is nothing distinctly female about her appearance.

Ori - Most (all?) of the significant characters in the first game are female, however, they are all unrecognisable as a particular gender.

Shantae - Despite being clearly a human female I consider her negative representation since she is not only sexualised but a sexualised child character. Clearly designed to titillate males in a way that is honestly just gross.

Steamworld Dig 2 - I noticed there was a female protag when looking them up just now. I didn't remember that. Again the character is androgynous.

Those are all from major series, which is significant, however I'm not sure any of them is an example of a positive female character in terms of representation. There is an unwillingness to sell a videeo game with a female character clearly positioned on the box as the lead and none of these games do this. That said, in terms of androgynous appearances, many male leads also seem to be presented similarly and I can't really hold a double standard, since I would never complain about those. I have mixed feelings.