Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 17:07:02 GMT -5
I wanted to do a thread where we look back at the different systems that competed back in the day and what each system had to offer over the other. I thought I'd cover SNES vs Mega Drive since that was always the schoolyard argument in my childhood. I want us to discuss not only which system we prefer but go into detail of libraries, genre's, specific games and ports, hardware (whatever you perceive as relevant really) from our perspective now looking back.
Now in terms of which is best and why there is so much back and forth I believe that is because the two systems offered something completely different but altogether equally valuable in terms of experience. That said I grew up with the SNES and my experience with the Mega Drive was through friends. Due to that I have a greater connection to the SNES library and my tastes have been significantly shaped by it, so I certainly can't offer an unbiased look. I did pick up a Mega Drive in early adulthood and begun to experience the games, but I don't believe I have dug as deep into it's line up. What I have found with the Mega Drive is that I seem to be less enthusiastic about some of the most prominent games such as Sonic the Hedgehog, whereas there are many great deeper cuts that I do enjoy quite a bit. SNES/Super Famicom has a lot of quality lesser known greats too of course.
So what are everyone's preferences? And what are the strength's of these two platforms when compared in everyone's opinion? And I would be also interested in the context of your opinion with regard to how much and when you experienced each system.
Thanks in advance.
Edit: - Oh, I am a God now apparently (500 posts). Is that blasphemy? At least I feel on par with some of you long timers now.
|
|
|
Post by spanky on Mar 3, 2021 19:12:18 GMT -5
My heart is with the SNES but I've really warmed up to the Genesis the past few years. I think I said this in another thread but I think the SNES does a better job with gaming "experiences." Stuff like Chrono Trigger, Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid etc. these games wowed people back then and they all hold up very well today. They're prestige games have earned their place on on Top Games of All Time lists.
The Genesis on the other hand, never quite hits those highs, but the system is loaded with thrills. You play something like Gunstar Heroes and Shinobi 3 and walk away thinking "Now that's a fucking video game!" It's library is bogged down a bit by a number of completely average western developed platformers that use the GEMS sound driver but there's so many great action games and shooters. I'm always impressed by the speed and fluidity of Genesis games. Even the Genesis sound is unfairly maligned - or at least was. I feel like people have really come around to it the past few years. A lot of SNES games sound "hollow" to me now.
As a kid, I was a dyed in the wool SNES fanboy and got into huge arguments with friends and schoolmates about the merits of our systems. It was a lot of fun, really. It was great being a SNES fan and watching the "war" eventually turn in Nintendo's favor. 1994 was the year the SNES really came around, with games like Super Metroid, FFIII, a superior port of MK II...by the time Donkey Kong Country came along, it just felt like they were showing off. I clearly remember watching the DKC promotional tape with my Genesis fan neighbor and grinning at him because I knew the SNES had won at that point. I was such a dork.
|
|
|
Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Mar 3, 2021 19:16:27 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to grow up with both, including a Mega CD for the MD though I barely had anything for that one at the time. I was kind of a late adopter of the SNES getting it around '94 with DKC but when I did I pretty much played it exclusively for maybe 3 years or so. As with most of these I think it depends on the genre and whatever else you're looking at like fm synth vs sample-based sound, backwards compatibility, the controller design, etc.
These are generalizing, a bit old and I haven't played everything: MD/GEN strengths: -Platform, Action, Shooter, Run 'n Gun, Action Adventure/Action RPG, Platform Adventure to an extent, Puzzle, Puzzle Platformer, Strategy, (W)RPG, Racing -The higher horizontal resolution in various multiplat action games tends to help their gameplay -Backwards compatibility -Seems to handle 3D better without the additional cart chips, not that it matters that much nowadays
Weaknesses: -Adventure though there are some for MCD, Simulation (City Building, though there's a decent port of Theme Park and the JP only Dyna Brothers games are similar), JRPG though again there are some more for MCD, FPS (Zero Tolerance is OK and there's a good homebrew of Wolf 3D) -Some of the best games are import only and/or not that well known -Sometimes lacking ports by major companies (Capcom, Konami) -Poor sound in many western games
SNES strengths: -Well-rounded library -Generally better voices than in other console games of its time (not including PCE CD and MCD games) -Hardware Mode 7 effects (includes scaling and rotation) -Larger color palette compared to both MD and PCE and more subpalettes compared to MD which allowed for more flexibility -More flexible sound on stock hardware and a higher "lowest common denominator" for how games sounded, in that the worst ones at least didn't make your ears bleed like the MD could
​Weaknesses: -Mostly slow and kiddy games, and no blood in MK! (j/k) -WRPG (Shadowrun is decent and New Horizons could be considered more of a WRPG), RTS, FPS -Slowdown and lower horizontal resolution in various Action games -No backwards compatiblity (and the NES library has many more good games than the SMS one) -Worse sports games than on MD overall?
I think ultimately I prefer the SNES library slightly for having a few more games that are around the top of my GOAT list and are considered more important for the medium such as Super Metroid and Zelda 3, but I think there are a few more good-great MD games in the genres I care about (I don't really care about JRPGs besides a handful for each, and I'm not crazy about most adventure games). I probably replay the shorter action games more often though, so there is that, not that I replay games much. Ignoring one of these consoles completely (if anyone still does that) means you're missing out on a lot of great games.
|
|
|
Post by toei on Mar 4, 2021 6:00:36 GMT -5
For me they complement each other very because I love SNES RPGs, but there's only a few SNES action games I like (because, as mentioned before, they're often slow and lacking in that arcade-style intensity), while I love Genesis action games, but it only has a few RPGs overall. Probably not coincidentally, the RPG subgenre it does best is action RPGs. Phantasy Star IV proves that the Genesis could absolutely do an all-time great turn-based RPG, but there's only one of it.
At the time, the rivalry was real, and I was a Sega kid. Sega just had the cooler brand. I agree about the sound thing - my perception is that it was mostly Western Genesis games that had bad music and sound effects, with a few exceptions like Road Rash (which sounds weird, but still rocks) and Comix Zone. There are tons of Japanese MD games with great soundtracks. The SNES, meanwhile, is better at melodic stuff than anything rhythmic (which is probably why almost all the great SNES soundtracks are for RPGs), and sometimes the highly-compressed samples sound really bad.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Alien on Mar 4, 2021 6:50:36 GMT -5
SNES had way too many platform games in its library, with the result that even the better ones were dismissed as "just another kiddy game" since it was perceived as the "less cool" of the two consoles.
|
|
|
Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Mar 4, 2021 7:05:22 GMT -5
Road Rash's in-game music uses only 3 of 6 FM channels and no PSG (master system part) or samples, which I guess shows that decent instrumentation is the most important but it could've sounded a lot better too with full use of the sound chip(s). I assume sample playback would've slowed gameplay down with the sound driver they used, since it was only used for the menu music.
There are some japanese stinkers like Doki Doki Penguin Land, Newzealand Story, Megapanel and Turbo Outrun but they are definitely fewer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 7:45:49 GMT -5
Road Rash's in-game music uses only 3 of 6 FM channels and no PSG (master system part) or samples, which I guess shows that decent instrumentation is the most important but it could've sounded a lot better too with full use of the sound chip(s). I assume sample playback would've slowed gameplay down with the sound driver they used, since it was only used for the menu music. There are some japanese stinkers like Doki Doki Penguin Land, Newzealand Story, Megapanel and Turbo Outrun but they are definitely fewer. I don't think Newzealand Story sounds good anywhere. The PC Engine version for instance is strangely high pitched. Honestly it's just an obnoxious arrangement even in the arcade.
|
|
|
Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Mar 4, 2021 9:39:31 GMT -5
I like the NES one overall (was made by Tim Follin I think) but yeah, it sounds very rushed in other versions and the tunes are not among Taito's best. One track I do like is Heaven, which reminds me of an old swedish folk song, and Ending isn't too shabby either I suppose. www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Pl7b12YXA
|
|
|
Post by windfisch on Mar 4, 2021 9:54:50 GMT -5
If I were to sum up the main difference in a sentence, I'd say that SNES games tend to look and sound "softer" and Mega Drive games "grittier". More limited color palette and more sythentic sounding audio gives Mega Drive games a slightly more artificial feel. Though, in the right hands, these supposed limitations could be turned into strenghts: The best Mega Drive games have a certain clarity to them, rarely seen or heard on the SNES. That said, I lean more towards the SNES, since it's got more of my favorite games and its catalogue offers a bit more variety.
Yeah, that Mortal Kombat marks the moment in history when video games finally grew up. So mature.
|
|
|
Post by dsparil on Mar 4, 2021 13:13:40 GMT -5
The NES was my only exposure to consoles until Summer '94 so everything was settled by then. I did end up playing way more Genesis than SNES games on actual hardware though. My neighbor with an SNES mostly played sports games so that was the bulk of what I played on the platform until emulation as a whole started to move beyond early efforts around '97. My neighbor with a Genesis had a CD and a 32X and actually played a variety of games and rented them. The Sega CD and 32X were from a raffle so there weren't too many games for either not that they really had huge libraries of exclusive games in the first place. Virtua Fighter on 32X was great though.
The way I think of it, the Genesis is like a sports car and the SNES is like a luxury car. Some people daily drive a Lamborghini or another exotic car, but then you constantly have to deal with the low clearance and other quirks. Likewise, you can take a luxury car out on a track and it'll certainly perform decently, but it's full of design decisions that benefit daily driving over speed. In the end though, I fall on the SNES side of things. There are certain genres that run better on a Genesis, but the SNES has a much more balanced library overall. The better graphics and sound are also much more generally useful than raw speed. There's games that would never work on the SNES, but plenty of exclusives like Landstalker are held back by the limitations of the system even if they work well within them.
Since the Genesis uses FM synthesis, it is much more of an instrument than the SNES's purely sample-based system so it has a narrow range. I wouldn't say it's unfairly maligned in the slightest though. There's some all time greatest music on the Genesis, but the worst of it is criminally awful on a physical level. The worst SNES music is usually more on the lazy or boring end since you'd actually have to load in grating samples.
What is unfairly maligned is GEMS because it was just a music creation utility for DOS that mapped closely to the actual hardware. It interfaced directly with the Genesis so you could hear what you were doing in real time and accurately. Since FM synthesis is complicated under the hood, there's obviously some tricks that weren't possible with it, but it let composers work in a way that was familiar. The problem so much as there was one is that it came with a prebuilt library of sounds and the time strapped just used them directly. It's a lot like when the TR-808 was super popular in the 80s and the drum sounds got used without any modification as if none of the knobs on it mattered.
|
|
|
Post by Snake on Mar 4, 2021 13:29:12 GMT -5
All hail the birth of our newest god, excelsior~ My personal preference is Super Nintendo. There are just more games I am compelled to revisit, and a larger library of games that I'm more interested in diving into. I came across Mega Drive/Sega Genesis first. A friend brought it over to another friends house, and was instantly, INSTANTLY in awe of arcade graphic quality of Altered Beast, Revenge of Shinobi, and Ghouls 'n Ghosts. A huge step up from the capabilities of the regular NES. Then came SNES, and that really just had so many quality games. Not to say that Mega Drive didn't. But I preferred the RPG library of SNES. Graphics on SNES were brighter, more colorful overall, in terms of games. Plus comparing overall sound quality on just the console (and not Mega CD add-on), the SNES had a more capable, warmer sound chip. Compositions are compositions. Plenty of lovely composed music on Mega Drive, particularly Sonic Team games, Yuzo Koshiro stuff like Shinobi, Streets of Rage, etc.
What I appreciate about Mega Drive is that the action rarely suffers slow-down. Just compare Contra 3 to Gunstar Heroes. The processing power is beefier than the SNES, so games like Sonic, El Viento, Afterburner 2 feel smooth and quick. Sports games, courtesy of Electronic Arts and the like, was really more Mega Drive's forte over SNES. The limited onscreen colors for Mega Drive, I think, lent many of the games a darker, grittier feel, aside from like, Gunstar Heroes and Sonic. Shining in the Darkness and Shining Force are albeit, brighter games, but still have a sense of darkness, or shadow. Phantasy Star games? Dark, in a way that matches the somber feel of floating in outerspace with environmental systems going haywire. Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition is just a darker feeling game than SNES SF2 Turbo. Eternal Champions, quite dark.
You'd be hard-pressed to find something as colorfully lush as Chrono Trigger, Donkey Kong Country, Legend of the Mystical Ninja, etc. etc.
Both systems offer must-play experiences. No need to fight, just choose and play both. There's no experience like Chrono Trigger on Mega Drive, just as there is no Snatcher or Michael Jackson's Moonwalker on SNES. Although, when I think about it... I don't think either SNES nor Genesis had as iconic light-gun shooting games like the NES (maybe just Lethal Enforcers 1 and 2 on Sega CD?) No one ever talks about Super Scope 6 as a common shared experience the way Duck Hunt was.
|
|
|
Post by spanky on Mar 4, 2021 15:22:50 GMT -5
I don't think either SNES nor Genesis had as iconic light-gun shooting games like the NES (maybe just Lethal Enforcers 1 and 2 on Sega CD?) No one ever talks about Super Scope 6 as a common shared experience the way Duck Hunt was.
Yeah I think a big part of the reason the Zapper and Duck Hunt are so iconic is because they were pack ins. Plus, it's a simple gun instead of a goofy bazooka that wears out your shoulder if you use it for too long. Battle Clash and it's sequel are probably the best Super Scope games. They actually rule, sorta like Punch Out with a gun. It's a minor tragedy there was never a Wii sequel. Lethal Enforcers is pretty well known due to the controversy it caused at the time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2021 3:06:37 GMT -5
One thing I find is that often JRPG's are brought up in comparison as a category that puts SNES over Mega Drive. Growing up in the UK, however, JRPG's were essentially non-existent. I'd seen some of these mythical 'Zelda-like' games (that's what I imagined they played like) in occasional magazines, but certainly hadn't played one back in the day. We did have a lot of import stores, but I wouldn't have known about which of those games were worth picking up. So my experience of SNES and holding it as a preference is without considering the genre. We did have quite a lot of games (around 50-60) and a nice variety for the platform though.
Having later discovered JRPG's, of course I've had limited time with them and so a great many unplayed. Between the two platforms though, Phantasy Star IV is my favourite. I just much prefer the world, characters and visuals of the game, as well as the fast paced nature of course. One thing though - when talking about music, Phantasy Star IV of course had a really nice soundtrack, but in PAL the music was slowed down on some games, this one included. Once I'd heard the faster version of the 60hz battle theme I felt incredibly jealous. I really think it's the best standard battle theme track of the era (that I've heard of course).
So, although MD/Genesis can't beat the sheer numbers of JRPG's on SNES, I am going to give it the advantage of the best in the genre. At least from my perspective so far.
Thank you Snake - Quick question though, do I need to apply somewhere for my rideable cloud and throwable lightning bolts? So far I haven't noticed anything to signal my new found status and immortality....
|
|
|
Post by windfisch on Mar 5, 2021 10:28:23 GMT -5
Hold your impressively huge horse, excelsior , it's not that easy, I'm afraid. Lightning bolts are only reserved for gods of the highest order. You'd either have to go through a long, tiresome process of sucking up to those for an eternity or two or you could take a short cut and just murder them - you know, the old-fashioned "Greek" way. Being an impatient and mischievous lower tier god, I would't mind a little insurrection, tbh. Of course, you'd have to go first, I would't want to take away all your glory... So, although MD/Genesis can't beat the sheer numbers of JRPG's on SNES, I am going to give it the advantage of the best in the genre. At least from my perspective so far. I like your thinking: One fantastic game can be worth more than a thousand good ones! Phantasy Star IV is one of a few JRPGs I quite enjoyed, despite its random encounters, which I'm generally not that fond of. Though, like with many others, I never finished it. I simply had put it on hold for too long, until reaching a point where it would've been better to just start anew. Which is something I still intend to do. Another one I'm planning to give a proper go is Chrono Trigger. The couple of minutes I've played so far and its general reputation give me hope that this might be my cup of tea. One genre that really gives the SNES the edge for me, is action adventures/ARPGs. Zelda III aside (which I also never finished, due to similar reasons as PSIV), there are Quintet's Soul Blader, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma (another one for my pile of shame). I'd even include the first Actraiser in that category, due to its hybrid nature. Then there are also Super Metroid and Demon's Crest. Soleil aside, no Mega Drive action adventure has grabbed me as much as any of those. Beyond Oasis, Light Crusader, Monster World III and IV are all pretty cool, but not quite on the same level. And there really is nothing like Super Metroid on the Mega Drive, taking into account both, gameplay and atmosphere, except for maybe Slime World. And I do take that half-assed Lynx port very personally! Compared to the original it is inexplicably less colorful, slower and worse-sounding. A prime example for how to mishandle the Mega Drive.
|
|
|
Post by spanky on Mar 5, 2021 11:06:28 GMT -5
I like your thinking: One fantastic game can be worth more than a thousand good ones! Phantasy Star IV is one of a few JRPGs I quite enjoyed, despite its random encounters, which I'm generally not that fond of. Though, like with many others, I never finished it. I simply had put it on hold for too long, until reaching a point where it would've been better to just start anew. Which is something I still intend to do. Another one I'm planning to give a proper go is Chrono Trigger. The couple of minutes I've played so far and its general reputation give me hope that this might be my cup of tea. I think it was Chris Kohler on an episode of Retronauts that said "Chrono Trigger is the ultimate expression of the 16-bit RPG" and I'll be damned if that isn't an accurate descriptor. It's definitely worth your time.
|
|