Platform Wars! Mega Drive/Genesis vs SNES/Super Famicom

[Deleted]

windfisch - don't listen to the spankable one (sorry spanky I am half kidding). Avoid Chrono Trigger at all costs. 

Seriously, what I look for in a JRPG clearly doesn't align with the majority, but I think of it as very much a streamlined experience made suitable for 'everyone' in such a way that it probably makes a perfect entry level game. It pretty much prioritises music, graphics (the sprite art in CT is not my cup of tea but OK) and storytelling - which was at least great for the first few hours before it pretty much disappeared. Battles are not random, but instead you are forced into battles with specifically placed enemies. Want to go through an area again? Well guess what you'll be fighting in there!!! I found it very tedious. Especially one part where I came down a lift with like 4 battles on. When I got to the bottom I accidentally tapped the wrong direction and had to go through all those battles, not once more, but twice, once for each direction. 

The combat is very poor, so repeating battles and being forced into them I found pretty awful. There's legitimately no reason to ever use different attacks. Mash the attack button on normal enemies for basic attack - don't worry you will win, no enemy even pretends to threaten you. On bosses its the standard strongest attack with some characters and one healer. What's really odd is an enemy positioning system is introduced early on, indicating there will be a dynamic to the combat, but nope, it's not used once. Instead the game continually rewards you with new stronger attack abilities, giving you a long list of redundant 'choices' that you don't need anyway because you can win by mashing attack. Very much it all comes down to style over substance for me. Basically throwing attack options to the player to appear flashy, whilst the player never requires to use their brain. I'm pretty sure I actually saw some of mine crawl away mid play just to find something more engaging. 

Anyway, that's my rant. But like I say, that's not what most JRPG players care for. Generally I think they prefer more flash, more story etc and don't care for any combat strategy. So, perhaps you'll enjoy it.... certainly it is heralded as the best JRPG of all time by many, perhaps you would be one of them, but I'm not going to sing any praises for it I'm afraid. If you want a nice JRPG without random encounters, a straight forward battle system revolving around fewer options that require a bit more thought from the player I'd recommend Earthbound. However, that game's simplicity does seem to put people off and since you aren't really into the genre it might be the wrong game for you.

Anyway, I think I might need those bolts of lightning after this post for self defence.

[spanky]

Those are all valid criticisms, Chrono Trigger is a real theme park ride of an RPG with it's flash and Hollywood story. So I get why some see it as shallow.

As far as personal favorite RPGs go, FFVI and Earthbound rank above it for me. However, if I could only recommend one 16-bit RPG to an RPG neophyte, it would easily be CT.

[windfisch]

Thanks for the insight and recommendations, spanky and excelsior .

I wouldn't say that I'm a complete noob when it comes to turn-based JRPGs, but my expierience with the genre is pretty limited. I've tried a couple, but only completed a few. In fact the only one that I remember finishing for sure would be Golden Sun, of all games, which I played during a vaccation trip. I think it was the game's extravagant presentation that helped me sit through it all. Limited access to other games might've helped, too. Though in hindsight it was too grind-heavy and not that satisfying in terms of story (cliffhanger ending, iIrc). So I've got no desire to play other games exactly like it.

Another JRPG I've played quite a bit of was Grandia II on the Dreamcast. From what I remember, the combat system was pretty fun and the story not too bad, but very drawn out. That's one I wouldn't mind giving another shot. Maybe the first one, too, if that had similar combat (does it?).

Earthbound is definitely on my list, since Mother 3 (translated) is another one that I really liked, especially in terms of atmosphere and story, but never finished. I guess it was at a rather impactful turning point in the story (you can probably guess the one) when I decided that I needed a break. Naturally, I never picked it up since.

The closest I might've played to Chrono Trigger would probably be Evoland II. Well, maybe a fith of that game, since it's the gaming equivalent to an all-you-can-eat buffet, combining all kinds of genres, copying certain games like Zelda, Shining Force or Chrono Trigger to varying degrees of success. Even though I finished it, it's not exactly something I'd recommend (some sections are really bad, most are just mediocre), but I remember the Chrono Trigger-like part being kinda fun. So naturally I'm assuming that the original will easily surpass that. Though, having to go through the same battles again and again is certainly something that would bother me.

edit: Even though I do like its atmosphere and setting immensly, I've always shied away from Final Fantasy VI, due to it featuring random battles. But reading my own post made me think: If I managed to tolerate Golden Sun, FFIV might be worth a shot, too. But its not my top priority at this point.

[Woody Alien]

Mar 4, 2021 7:45:49 GMT -5 excelsior said:

I don't think Newzealand Story sounds good anywhere. The PC Engine version for instance is strangely high pitched. Honestly it's just an obnoxious arrangement even in the arcade.

The PC Engine port of TNZS is terrible for various reasons, but I have to agree, as much as I like that game I don't see its BGM as Taito's best efforts. I see them as annoying and repetitive too.

By the way, I loved both EarthBound and Chrono Trigger. I can't really decide between the two because they're both really good at what they do IMO.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2021 18:02:59 GMT -5 Woody Alien said:

Mar 4, 2021 7:45:49 GMT -5 excelsior said:

I don't think Newzealand Story sounds good anywhere. The PC Engine version for instance is strangely high pitched. Honestly it's just an obnoxious arrangement even in the arcade.

The PC Engine port of TNZS is terrible for various reasons, but I have to agree, as much as I like that game I don't see its BGM as Taito's best efforts. I see them as annoying and repetitive too.

By the way, I loved both EarthBound and Chrono Trigger. I can't really decide between the two because they're both really good at what they do IMO.

Yeah, I don't know what happened on the PCE port of Newzealand story. I have a lot of fond memories of the game as a child and picking up that port kind of ruined them. In terms of pure platformers, having that and Rainbow Island from Taito is a couple of points in the MD's favour. 

[🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀]

Like most people have said, I think both are great systems that have their own personality. SNES obviously has more graphical capabilities and a sound chip that was handled better in most cases, while the Genesis has speed. I think it's worth pointing out that they both have some of the most highly regarded controllers of all time, too, though I've never played on an actual Genesis.

But if you have to pick one, the SNES ultimately wins out due to its library, IMO. I haven't exhausted even a fraction of the library of worthwile titles for either system, but I've encountered too many duds on the Sega side of things. On the other hand, there's hardly a single 1st party title on the SNES that has aged poorly.

Part of this admittedly is due to Sega's tendency to rerelease even some of their awful titles over and over (Nintendo does the same with the NES...just leave NES Soccer in the past already). But I'm also not just a big fan of a lot of action titles on Genesis that take too much after contemporary arcade titles. SNES action titles I've played are a lot more forward thinking, not just in terms of design like that, but also length and depth, and just feel more fair overall. Also, while the speed thing is nice and all and makes stuff like Sonic possible, it's really a non-issue for 95% of the SNES library.

That's not to say that the Genesis doesn't have it's fair share of masterpieces, but overall the SNES just has to take the win.

[windfisch]

Mar 8, 2021 9:54:47 GMT -5 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 said:

Also, while the speed thing is nice and all and makes stuff like Sonic possible, it's really a non-issue for 95% of the SNES library.

Like you said, a non-issue

Seriously though, when it comes sprite-intensive games (as opposed to just fast scrolling), the Mega Drive certainly had the advantage. Comparing SNES Sparkster to both Mega Drive Rocket Knights or Contra Spirits to Hardcorps seems like a fair way to gauge hardware differences. That said, Rendering Ranger R2 exists, proving that in the right hands the SNES could handle similarily bombastic action games without any slowdown to speak of. Super Turrican II also runs pretty smoothly, as do the Donkey Kong Country games - all of which don't use additional chips, if I'm not mistaken. So would titles like Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier be possible on the SNES? Probably not without some compromises, but I'm not a 100% sure about that.

[dsparil]

The Genesis pad does feel nice, but the fact that it's only 3 buttons standard does cause issues ironically with arcade ports. For example, Smash TV was way better to play on SNES since the face buttons could reasonable emulate a twin stick setup and SFII is basically unplayable without the 6 button controller. MK is clunky without it, but not awful. 

[Deleted]

I somewhat agree that the SNES action games are more approachable and I'm able to play through them from beginning to end, at least in coop. Particularly for run and gun games, I'm thinking of Super Probotector and SNES Sunset Riders here in particular. The MD games in the same genre have some tougher entries. Alien Soldier and Probotector in particular are very hard on the system (am I correct in thinking the Japanese verion of MD Probotector is easier?). The Adventures of Batman and Robin is another good tough one. On the other hand though I am able to get pretty far through Gunstar Heroes and Alisia Dragoon, even if I've never been able to finish them. A lot of the time there is just too much going on for me and this is where the SNES being slower allows for a more balanced player experience.

[ommadawnyawn2]

It depends on the game; I think Gunstar Heroes is more accessible than either Contra and the original JP version of Contra HC is about as accessible as Contra 3 (more to me since I don't like the top down levels that much). Rocket Knight Adventures is a bit more accessible than Sparkster. With CV it's a bit of a tossup since CV4 has more forgiving controls but gets harder in the end-game. Less slowdown and higher horizontal res makes the multiplat games more accessible on MD, unless you care more about the audiovisuals.
I haven't noticed SNES action games being deeper nor longer unless you count games like Super Metroid and Front Mission: Gun Hazard there.

Sonic has more of an arcade game design than Mario though for sure and the AoB&R game is brutal on MD.

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2021 11:42:15 GMT -5 ommadawnyawn2 said:

It depends on the game; I think Gunstar Heroes is more accessible than either Contra and the original JP version of Contra HC is about as accessible as Contra 3 (more to me since I don't like the top down levels that much). Rocket Knight Adventures is a bit more accessible than Sparkster. With CV it's a bit of a tossup since CV4 has more forgiving controls but gets harder in the end-game. Less slowdown and higher horizontal res makes the multiplat games more accessible on MD, unless you care more about the audiovisuals.
I haven't noticed SNES action games being deeper nor longer unless you count games like Super Metroid and Front Mission: Gun Hazard there.

Sonic has more of an arcade game design than Mario though for sure and the AoB&R game is brutal on MD.

Well the Mega Drive Sunset Riders had some cut content if I recall correctly, so that's an example of a particular game being shorter. And of course, since I hold Sunset Riders in such high esteem, that's enough for me to discredit the entire Mega Drive action library. 

[windfisch]

excelsior

Japanese Hard Corps gives you hit points, which helps a lot! Batman and Robin is pretty unforgiving, I agree. The fact that stages tend to go on forever doesn't help either, which is shame, because it hints at greatness here and there.

In terms of approachable action titles the Mega Drive has Shinobi III. Since I consider it to be one of the best games I ever played, that's a huge plus. The closest SNES counterpart would probably be Hagane - a pretty cool game in its own right, but hardly an approachable one.

edit: And speaking of (not) being approachable: What do you guys think of Ranger X? It's so cool and yet so complicated at the same time. I always feel like I'm playing it wrong.

[Deleted]

windfisch - Hagane isn't even approachable to buy, never mind actually playing it.

[windfisch]

Is it capitalistic honesty (if such thing even exists) or lack of authentic experience that makes you shy away from other means?

[ommadawnyawn2]

I liked Ranger X too. Yeah it takes some getting used to with some of the controls and how you sometimes can't kill everything and need to focus on the objectives instead, but it isn't that hard once you do. I think I finished it on hard too, years ago. That one is rather short though but the depth is on par with the Assault Suit games and the light source recharging mechanic was innovative. Merging with the bike was an interesting concept that could've been used better with some more open and horizontal level design requiring longer jumps or something.




excelsior


Hehe ok yeah. Then again some other games like Lost Vikings, EWJ1 and I think Rock 'n Roll Racing had more levels on MD. I think Konami used a smaller cart size or something for that one. Not sure about TMNT: HH, that one had fewer but longer levels.