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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 16:12:13 GMT -5
I've been slowly chipping away at Monster Hunter Rise and have reached what is known in the game as the rampage. For whatever reason this is pretty much a genre shift for these rampage missions to a tower defence within the main storyline. It feels jarring to me and it simply isn't the gameplay I purchased the game for so in that respect is something of a chore.
It feels to me that changes such as this are inserted to avoid criticism of repetition, but that often it comes at the expense of player experience. That said, there are surely examples where such genre changes are handled well. Does anybody have any examples of games which shifted genre's/gameplay significantly? And do you think it is handled well or not in those instances? Do you have an overall opinion on these kinds of gameplay transitions?
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Apr 12, 2021 17:05:51 GMT -5
I generally don't like it when games do this. Usually, if it doesn't suck, it at least isn't something that's as good as the main game and something I just want to get over with. I feel the same as you; it's something that I didn't buy the game for.
I've just beaten Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and this game is like the perfect example. It has a couple of Divine Beast missions where you pilot the aforementioned beasts. And they're kind of like...a simple mech game or something? They're not the worst, though I always get hit by shit I can't block and there's too many of them. One or two per beast would be fine, but beyond that you're going overboard. And you can't really level up the Divine Beasts either so you can't cheese them like you can with, say, missions for characters you don't like. Not that they've been that hard so far.
Contra is another example. Contra 1 (the NES version at least, I don't remember how the arcade's are) has the behind-the-back stages that are really fun. Contra III has top-down stages that don't really make a lot of sense to me (pretty sure Konami just put them in to show off the SNES like they did with CV4). Those are still shooters though so they're not too far removed.
The rocket stages in the Retro DKC games (no not the retro ones, the Retro ones) come to mind too. I think that's still in the spirit of the game and fit in with the minecart stages which are pretty much platforming stages. They're also pretty fun, so I don't mind them.
Shoot-em-up segments are also pretty common I think. Mario Land has some short and easy ones. Kirby games often have them towards the end of the game for some reason. Either aren't too bad.
The Wonderful 101 ends with a Punch-Out-ish boss that has nothing to do with the main gameplay style. Don't remember if it was good or bad but it's weird to end a game with a dramatically different style of gameplay.
Sonic Generations ends with some fucking garbage on-rails flying section that I don't remember I ever finished or not because it's so bad that I instantly lose my will to live, let alone play on when I die on that even once.
Rayman 3 has a bunch of weird parts in there. There's some 'driving' (?) segments where you drive your shoe, some snowboarding that wasn't too great from what I remember, and a part where you're on a ship and have to enemies with cannons that I never liked.
I'm sure someone who has played a lot of point-and-click adventure games can enlighten us with some examples of bad action segments in these kind of games.
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Post by mainpatr on Apr 12, 2021 18:36:20 GMT -5
Lost planet 1 ended with a Zone of The Enders style fight.
Spell Caster and Magic Knight Rayearth end with basically the same shmup fight.
Devil May Cry 1 had the underwater levels,which were basically shooters,ditto with Mundus's 1st form\Bayonetta Space Harrier stage.
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Apr 12, 2021 18:38:21 GMT -5
Off the top of my head there's the space combat sim segments in Ratchet & Clank 2, which were alright but not really something I looked forward to and I was a little annoyed when I had to find materials to upgrade the ship to beat one of the later ones. Same game also has a couple of giant Clank segments which were decent and sort of a precursor to the mini-planets in Mario Galaxy, though a bit inconsistent control-wise.
I'd say this was fairly common in the 8-bit era, I'll have to come back with some examples.
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Post by spanky on Apr 13, 2021 6:29:58 GMT -5
Super Ninja Boy for the SNES looks like a Dragon Quest style RPG...but the random encounters and dungeons are a (poorly done) beat-em up/platformer hybrid. Except for the bosses which are straight up turn based, menu driven RPG fights.
Battletoads pretty much changes what type of game you are playing with every level or so.
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Post by Bumpyroad on Apr 13, 2021 7:02:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 7:32:34 GMT -5
Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne was a lovely RPG but what on Earth was with the weird 3D on rail segments? I don't know how to describe them but they really were a bad fit.  Sly Cooper had a lot of vehicle levels, which for the first game dragged the experience down a little for me. They resolved the issue in the second game, by significantly bringing down the quality of the entire product to balance it out  . Bayonetta Space Harrier stage. That one was a nice shout out at first...then it just kept going. Having thought about it a bit more I think that there is more of an issue with gameplay changes in modern games (since move to 3D mostly) than older ones simply due to the development time needed to achieve the vision being greater. Resultingly we end up with not only with these secondary play systems being under baked but also, given there is significant cost in production of such content, they often are overused in order to justify their own existence. |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Apr 13, 2021 9:05:17 GMT -5
I'm playing Incredible Hulk (2005) right now and while the main game sticks mostly with missions that fit within its platformer/beat 'em up gameplay, several of the side missions are different mini-games that feel pretty shoehorned in like golf, soccer and rugby goal shots, baseball shots, and a hangglider segment that feels like it's from Pilotwings.
Some other of those 8-bit games I was thinking of:
​The Magic of Scheherazade
Ghostbusters
Golvellius
Guardian Legend
Goonies 2
Spellcaster - Also mixes graphic adventure and platformer gameplay
Getsu Fuuma Den
Ultimate Stuntman
Rygar
Blaster Master
Bionic Commando
Friday the 13th
XZR 1-2
Star Cruiser
Zelda II, Gargoyle's Quest 1-2 and Ax Battler
Star Wars
Rocket Ranger
WibArm
Quest for Glory 1-2
Clash at Demonhead - Suddenly hits you with a bomb defusal mini-game at the end which is pretty much luck-based
TMNT 1
Little Ninja Brothers - see the SNES game
Kid Icarus - shoot 'em up-style final level
Alex Kidd in Miracle World - a couple of shoot 'em up-style levels
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Post by dsparil on Apr 13, 2021 10:04:03 GMT -5
What comes to mind for me are badly done action/arcade sequences in adventure games. There's a particularly awful one in the first Space Quest that the remake lets you skip entirely. The Astro Chicken arcade mini-game in Space Quest III is actually pretty fun and technically optional. In the middle are the side scrolling action portions of the first Tex Murphy game, Mean Streets. They're very easy and add a little extra texture.
I haven't played it, but a big one that comes to mind is the strategy portion of BrĂĽtal Legend. People seem to really hate it and think it's tacked on to the main action adventure gameplay, but the tacking on is the other way around!
In general, making the shifts easier than the main game is really what developers should go for but don't always seem to do.
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Post by windfisch on Apr 13, 2021 11:02:15 GMT -5
Two words: Act Raiser
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Post by Bumpyroad on Apr 13, 2021 11:13:03 GMT -5
I think AR is a hybrid genre case and it's not shy of implying that.
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Post by Snake on Apr 13, 2021 13:45:37 GMT -5
Ditto for The Guardian Legend for sure. Zelda 1-style overworld exploration coupled with 2-D sidescrolling shooter made for a fun combo.
Policenauts, while mostly a visual mystery novel style game, took up gun shooter action scenes (either with the controller or a hooked up light-gun). And that stupid stupid, infuriating bomb-disarming mini-game moment...
Legend of the Mystical Ninja/Ganbare Goemon is filled with money-making side games. Quiz show, paint, whack-a-mole, gambling. With, again Zelda-style overworld coupled with 2-D platformer action.
Zero 4 Champ RR (Super Famicom) - The basis of this game is JDM drag racing (Zero 4 refers to "zero-yon," or 0-to-400 meters for Japanese drag racing). The drag racing segment itself only consists of accelerating and shifting gears through a gated shifter. But that is really a small segment... compared to the rest of the game. You play a young man, in a visual novel segment that has to pass his driver's license (take a quiz segment), and do part-time jobs to earn money, so you can by an RX-7 or an NSX, as well as car parts to boost performance. Those mini-games range from roach exterminator, to mechanical parking lot manager, etc, which play like puzzle games. But the real money maker is the RPG part-time job, where you go into a building, and try to record the map, get experience... and this is where the bulk of the time is spent. Plus, there are a few "dating" segments mixed in, until the next drag race event.
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Post by windfisch on Apr 13, 2021 14:58:18 GMT -5
I think AR is a hybrid genre case and it's not shy of implying that. True, but many games mentioned here are. At the very least it's a good example of how to combine two genres successfully. |
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Apr 13, 2021 15:22:37 GMT -5
True, but many games mentioned here are. People should stick to the damn assignment!! |
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Post by ommadawnyawn2 on Apr 13, 2021 15:38:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah, well I think the hybridization works pretty well in most of the ones I mentioned except for some of the games just being kind of average in general. For AA or ARPG games a top down shift during town exploration tends to work well since it can reduce backtracking and give you a better overview of the town.
In Golvellius it's a little annoying how you can't turn around in the platformer segments and can get kicked out if you touch the "back" end of the screen in that it's sometimes trial & error-based, though they're still pretty fun. This was fixed in Super Cooks IIRC, a spiritual sequel of sorts.
In Star Wars (NES/SMS) the FP view space combat parts feel pretty dated IIRC.
Pirates! is another one. It's kinda like a mini-game compilation besides the main exploration part. Most of it works pretty well with the duels being better in certain versions than others, though the top down turn-based battles on land were kinda basic IIRC. In the 2004 remake, the dancing mini-game is quite hard on higher difficulties because the visual indicators disappear even if you have the dancing shoes.
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