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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 8:15:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 8:23:25 GMT -5
For ease of reference I have posted below genre breakdown per system:
N64
Sports
AKI Wrestling series (6 games)
Tony Hawk's series
Racing
Beetle Adventure Racing
Diddy Kong Racing
Extreme G Series
Ridge Racer 64
Star Wars Episode I Racer
Re-Volt
FPS/TPS
Doom 64
Quake 2
Turok
Horror
Resident Evil 2
Fighting
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
SHMUP
Puzzle
Bust a Move 2
Wetrix
Platform (3D)
Chameleon Twist
Glover
Space Station Silicon Valley
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Platform (2D)
Michief Makers
Strategy
Ogre Battle 64
RPG
Party/Rhythm
Bomberman Hero/Bomberman series
Action
Star Wars Rogue Squadron
Adventure
Body Harvest
Castlevania/Legacy of Darkness
Hybrid Heaven
Mega Man 64
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon 2
Shadowman
Spider-Man
Winback
Gamecube
Sports
Def Jam Vendetta Series
Rocky
Ribbit King
Tony Hawks Pro Skater (Series)
Ultimate Muscle Legends
Racing
Sonic Riders
FPS/TPS
Call of Duty 2
Freedom Fighters
Timesplitters 2
Timesplitters Future Perfect
XIII
Horror
Resident Evil 0
Resident Evil (Remake)
Resident Evil 1
Resident Evil 3
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil Code Veronica
Fighting
Capcom vs SNK 2
SHMUP
Ikaruga
Puzzle
Mr Driller Drill Land
Super Bust a Move Allstars
Platform (3D)
Billy Hatcher & The Giant Egg
I-Ninja
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
Prince of Persia: Two Thrones
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy
Platform (2D)
Sonic Gems Collection
Sonic Mega Collection
Mega Man Anniversary Collection
Mega Man X Collection
Strategy
RPG
Baten Kaitos
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
Lord of the Rings The Third Age
Phantasy Star Online I&II
Tales of Symphonia
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Party/Rhythm
Bomberman Generations
Sonic Heroes
Action
Bomberman Jetters
Gotcha Force
P.N.03
Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2
Star Wars Rogue Squadron 3
Super Monkey Ball
Super Monkey Ball 2
Viewtiful Joe
Viewtiful Joe 2
Adventure
Beyond Good & Evil
Darkened Skye
Hitman 2
Second Sight
Simpsons Hit & Run
Spider-Man 2
Increduble Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
Killer 7
Lego Star Wars
Lego Star Wars 2
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes
Wii
Sports
NBA Jam
Super Swing Golf Season 2
Racing
Driift Mania
Sonic Riders Zero Gravity
FPS/TPS
Eledees
Red Steel 2
Horror
Resident Evil 0
Resident Evil (Remake)
Resident Evil 4
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Fighting
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Soul Calibur II
SHMUP
Star Solider R
Geometry Wars Galaxies
Gradius Rebirth
Castle Shikigami III
Puzzle
Bit Trip Series/Bit Trip Collection
Kororoinpa
LIT
Octomania
Toki Tori
World of Goo
Zack & Wiki
Boom Blox Series
Platform (3D)
De Blob
De Blob 2
Dewey's Adventure
Klonoa
Kore Gang
Mushroom Men The Spore Wars
Rodea
Platform (2D)
A Boy and His Blob
Cave Story
Contra Rebirth
La-Mulana
Lostwinds
Lostwinds 2
Mega Man 9
Mega Man 10
Sonic Colours
Castlevania Rebirth
Strategy
Final Fantasy My Life as a King
Little King's Story
Space Invaders Get Even
RPG
Arc Rise Fantasia
Final Fantasy Fables Chocobo's Dungeon
Fragile Dreams
Rune Factory Frontier
Rune Factory Tides of Destiny
Shiren the Wanderer
Opoona
Muramasa
Monster Hunter Tri
Party/Rhythm
Cooking Mama World Kitchen
DJ Hero Series
Dokapon Kingdom
Help Wanted/Job Island
Order Up
Guitar Hero 3
Action
Dead Space Extraction
Ghost Squad
Madworld
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2
Rabbids Go Home
Samurai Warriors 3
Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces
Trauma Centre New Blood
Tranma Centre Second Opinion
Trauma Team
Gunblade
Adventure
Blaster Master Overdrive
Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law
Wii U
Sports
Racing
FAST Racing Neo
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Runbow
FPS/TPS
Horror
Resident Evil Revelations
Zombi U
Fighting
Tekken Tag Tournament
SHMUP
Nano Assault Neo
Puzzle
Affordable Space Adventures
Stealth Inc 2
The Swapper
Teslagrad
Toki Tori 2+
Platform (3D)
Sonic Lost World
Platform (2D)
Axiom Verge
Bit Trip Runner 2
Disney's Ducktales Remastered
Freedom Planet
Guacamelee!: Super Turbo Championship Edition
Rayman Legends
Shantae: Half-Genie Hero
Shantae: Risky's Revenge
Shantae & The Pirates Curse
Shovel Knight
SteamWorld Dig
Strategy
SteamWorld Heist
RPG
Child of Light
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
Party/Rhythm
Action
Octodad: Dadliest Catch
Severed
Adventure
Assassins Creed III
Assassins Creed IV
Batman Arkham City
Batman Arkham Origins
Darksiders II
Lego Jurassic Park
Lego Marvel Super Heroes
Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jun 16, 2021 10:11:55 GMT -5
Neat charts.
It does provide the gist of what you are looking for in their libraries. Interesting the Wii had all of its genres filled out. For all the complaints about shovelware and "nobody making AAA titles" here we see there was something for everybody.
I probably should talked about N64 some more, appears to have the least amount of titles reported.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 8:34:06 GMT -5
It's been too bloody hot for me to feel like making a proper analysis so far as I really should have but thanks for your response.
I think with Wii, quite a few of those titles are Wiiware games in a time where digital games were not very successful. Also the Wii had more games in total than the other 3 platforms so shelf presence to quality 3rd party games was more limited. Also, looking at areas with low representation FPS and Adventure genre's were lower than on Gamecube. I think those are the genre's people would have been looking for primarily for AAA experiences.
One argument I see against the Wii in terms of 3rd parties is that rather than bring core entries to their series they would create spin offs, such as Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles or Dead Space extraction. I don't really like that argument though because I don't think those games would have existed without the Wii, and some of these games are worth playing in their own right.
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Post by spanky on Jun 17, 2021 10:11:24 GMT -5
Man, the N64 really had dreadful 3rd party support didn't it? To me, Nintendo was more than Mario and Zelda. It was also Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter etc...all games poorly represented or completely absent from the system.
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Post by dsparil on Jun 17, 2021 12:52:53 GMT -5
Thanks for putting this together! I can't believe I missed it.
It was pretty bad on the N64. Sticking to catridges really backfired when literally everyone else was using discs. Can't really explain the lack of Mega Man though aside from the N64 lacking in 2D side scrollers in general.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 6:13:45 GMT -5
From what I read (and please let me know if this is not true) about Capcom's relationship with PlayStation they had to really push for Mega Man 8 to be allowed to be published on the system since Sony had policies against 2D games on their system. Apparently they had to go as far as threatening not to release Resident Evil 2 on the platform. I guess there must have been no interest whatsoever in releasing on Nintendo's system in order to go to that length for a PlayStation release. What likely would have been the case in developing a 2D Mega Man game for N64 though is that it would have had to have been made from the ground up to get something running. I'd imagine it would have had to be an exclusive.
Out of all publishers though, I find Capcom are one of the one's whose relationship soured the least with Nintendo. A deal was made to bring a few games to N64, of course including Mega Man 64, Resident Evil 2 and Resident Evil 0. It really seemed that cartridge cost was the sole issue Capcom had and they were back supporting Nintendo after a short hiatus. Speaking of Resident Evil 0 though, what is interesting is that the switching character mechanism came about as a way to take advantage of the lack of loading that the 64 offered, and yet of course the game didn't end up releasing on the platform, although it was far enough along in development that footage can be found online.
To go off on a tangent and post a random factoid about another prominent 3rd party player on the platform, I was recently reading that the relationship between THQ and AKI Corp dissolved due to AKI no longer wanting to develop for Nintendo platforms, so that explains why we never got follow ups on Gamecube and their final N64 game was cancelled. It is ironic though since as a company, whilst a very different one from back in those days, now known as syn Sophia they are mostly known as the Nintendo development partner behind the Style Savvy/Style Boutique series.
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Post by dsparil on Jun 18, 2021 7:28:45 GMT -5
Sony having rules against 2D was more PS2 era although it was only selectively enforced. The canonical example is of course forcing Working Designs to compile Growlanser II and III into Generations which contributed to WD going out of business. On the PSX, it seems like it was purely on the whims of the executives. Sony did seem to have initially blocked MM8 specifically in the US, but Capcom withholding RE2 is very unlikely. They had a non-exclusive deal with Sony for RE 1 to 3, and I doubt that they'd put that in jeopardy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 10:08:10 GMT -5
Sony having rules against 2D was more PS2 era although it was only selectively enforced. The canonical example is of course forcing Working Designs to compile Growlanser II and III into Generations which contributed to WD going out of business. On the PSX, it seems like it was purely on the whims of the executives. Sony did seem to have initially blocked MM8 specifically in the US, but Capcom withholding RE2 is very unlikely. They had a non-exclusive deal with Sony for RE 1 to 3, and I doubt that they'd put that in jeopardy. Thanks for clarifying. The era is a bit of a knowledge gap for me and going back reading stories on the internet, things become muddled and there's a lot of embellishment. It can be difficult to separate fact from fiction. |
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Post by ZenithianHero on Jun 18, 2021 11:31:29 GMT -5
My guess is Capcom argued for the brand quality of Mega Man. I wonder if Konami had problems with SotN and Castlevania Chronicles...
It was implied that Sony didn't like arcade ports unless in a collection or bundle. SNK had to bundle Metal Slug and KoF titles for example.
The 2D problems appear to still be in effect during PSP days as NISA wanted to localize Sakura Wars on PSP but was denied. I'm sure we can dig up similar stories of denied localization.
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Post by dsparil on Jun 18, 2021 12:17:14 GMT -5
It was Capcom deciding to bring MM8 to the Saturn that made Sony change their mind. Sony wanted some kind of exclusive for the PSX version, so Capcom threw in a little extra booklet celebrating the series's 10th anniversary. The source for this is an episode of G4's Icons on Mega Man coming from editors of Tips and Tricks magazine so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt. Inafune did participate in it so that makes it a little more trustworthy to me.
(cued to that part)
Sony was all over the place with 2D on the PS2 particularly with that compilations only "rule". Like King of Fighters and Metal Slug did have some individual games released. The first few KoF games passed over the US but sometimes came out in Europe, but then suddenly Sony was okay with Maximum Impact in 2004 and a few others after that. Same thing with denying Metal Slug 3 and 4 but not 5 and 6. I think MS3 was an actual no since it came out in the US on the Xbox. I guess they relaxed on that after a few years but not soon enough for Working Designs.
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Jun 18, 2021 14:49:55 GMT -5
I never really understood the lack of 2D games on the N64 anyway. Surely the PSX and SS weren't that much more capable or anything? I guess developers really just wanted to show off they could do 3D, and the N64 was the most sophisticated 3D system until the Dreamcast came along. I suppose the N64 launching a bit later than the 32-bit guys and launching with freaking Mario 64 didn't help either. So I get why you would make, say, Castlevania 64 instead of porting SotN, but still... In a way it's similar to how every game had to have waggle when the Wii came around. One argument I see against the Wii in terms of 3rd parties is that rather than bring core entries to their series they would create spin offs, such as Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles or Dead Space extraction. I don't really like that argument though because I don't think those games would have existed without the Wii, and some of these games are worth playing in their own right. It's nice that those games exist and wouldn't have without the Wii, but it's still a bit frustrating if you only have one current-gen console and it happens to be the one that mostly gets spin-offs or inferior/unique ports. Sometimes Wii titles felt more like handheld-exclusive entries in a series or something. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 1:33:28 GMT -5
I never really understood the lack of 2D games on the N64 anyway. Surely the PSX and SS weren't that much more capable or anything? I guess developers really just wanted to show off they could do 3D, and the N64 was the most sophisticated 3D system until the Dreamcast came along. I suppose the N64 launching a bit later than the 32-bit guys and launching with freaking Mario 64 didn't help either. So I get why you would make, say, Castlevania 64 instead of porting SotN, but still... In a way it's similar to how every game had to have waggle when the Wii It's nice that those games exist and wouldn't have without the Wii, but it's still a bit frustrating if you only have one current-gen console and it happens to be the one that mostly gets spin-offs or inferior/unique ports. Sometimes Wii titles felt more like handheld-exclusive entries in a series or something.
For 2D games cartridge size would have been a limiting factor. The amount of frames of animation on arcade games for instance would have required a huge cart so compromises would have had to be made on resolution and frames. On Symphony of the Night specifically, the sprites probably weren't intensive to be an issue, but the music would have seen a large compromise. I'd expect it would have required a new version of the soundtrack in order to fit on the cart. I see the perspective of frustration with not getting the bigger games on Wii, but I think it all comes down to taste and choice. That generation was a bit odd, in that you had to own at least 4 platforms to access the full variety in the type of software on offer, which nowadays can thankfully be acquired with just 2. I have to be honest though I always found it difficult to find games that interested me on the XBox 360 or PS3, and traded both in after a short time. So much of the software was targeted at the same audience and that was not me. I really preferred those Wii spinoffs. |
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Post by 🧀Son of Suzy Creamcheese🧀 on Jun 19, 2021 7:51:09 GMT -5
There are a lot of multiplatform titles where they redid the soundtrack so that it could work on the N64. IDK, I don't feel the few 2D games on the N64 are really compromised by being on a cartridge, so I don't see how they wouldn't be able to make, say, the 2D 32-bit Megaman titles work on the system. Games like Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct worked, and Wonder Project J2 is one of the more impressive 2D games of the era. And arcade games needed to be scaled down for PSX/SS conversions often too (maybe more so on PSX than SS?). But then again, I don't know anything about technical stuff like that.
And yeah, it is nice that you need less these days to get the full range of experiences. But I also miss the days when there was actually a difference between platforms.
360 and PS3 never really interested me that much either actually. For me, the handhelds had the most interesting libraries that gen.
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Post by dsparil on Jun 19, 2021 8:59:36 GMT -5
It was RAM limitations for storing all the animation frames that limited fighting games on the PSX and Saturn. The RAM expansion for the Saturn gave it enough memory to store them all and have arcade perfect conversions. Of course, it never left Japan unlike the N64's Expansion Pak which added in just as much memory. That would have been a good use for it instead of adding in slow high res modes like most games did, but the limited amount of storage would have been an issue. Based on the size of the arcade game, I think it would have been challenging but possible for Capcom to make an arcade perfect port of Street Fighter III with the EP because the initial roster was so small. There wasn't a home version of SFIII until 2000, so that was a big missed opportunity.
Ultimately, the issue is that storing 3D used less space than 2D for the amount of unique animation in a fighting game of that era. MKT is just an update of MK3 so a few years old at that point, and KIG has a small roster without a huge amount of animation so they were a lot more feasible. I think those two, the two Clayfighters and Rakugakids are literally the only non-fully 3D fighting games on the platform. For other genres, I wouldn't discount the stark differences in storage space. The largest N64 cartridge is still not that big at 64MB, only 10% of a CD!, and only 3 games used it. The N64 does have some nice looking exclusive 2D games, but I think the issue is more that side scrollers originating on other platforms had an amount of space that might as well of been infinite to work with. Not that I like the series, but I think it's telling that the original 2D Gex didn't get an N64 port, but the later two 3D games did.
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