SNES Game of the Week 118 - Clock Tower

[retr0gamer]

Jul 20, 2024 11:14:31 GMT -5 retr0gamer said:

Jul 20, 2024 6:25:11 GMT -5 excelsior said:

I'm seeing some B's and it's all opinions of course, but for me I can't think of a better action game on SNES. Moving from set piece to set piece, with no wasted space, always introducing something new is something I always found exhilarating about Super Probotector. Perhaps, though, I've just come across the issue. I listed Contra 3 and we all know that the robots are much cooler than those muscle-bound primadonnas Bill and Lance.

I'm going with an S.

It needed some blast processing.

[personman]

Got the Switch collection and managed to tough it out on normal mode after having to restart like 5 times. Never really been a fan of the series as I'm just not great at the run n gun sort and the reputation it has for being cruel turned me away. Frankly I still feel this was a bit much for my tastes, I know these were born from arcade titles but it really sticks in my craw when you're acting like a quarter muncher when I'm at home. I have no quarters to give you! Please stop stomping on my neck! Also the top down stages still rather bad especially the boss for the second one but at leas there is only two of them. Always hate when games deny you a conclusion unless you go to the highest difficulty as well which I gave it a shot and got smothered in the first minute of the loop. Yeah fuck that noise.

However, I have to concede that while I may not be great at the game that doesn't make it bad. You just can't help but smile when you can just plain see the enthusiasm they had for the new hardware shoving in so many mode 7 tricks and sprite rotations and such all over the place. Game looks great, sounds great and the bosses are full of spectacle. Even if I found them annoying (that Terminator thing can fuck off) they're fantastically done. If I'm honest this game isn't to my tastes but I have nothing but respect for it. Where I to rate it personally I'd go with B but objectively I think it deserves an A.

Also I just learned about Probotector thanks to this and I actually played through it instead! For one runnign at 50 hz. helped my decrepit ass react to shit and yeah I have to agree these guys are way cooler than discount Arnie and Stalone:



Goddamn slick; I love the little antenna ears. If I continue with this series I may just seek out all the PAL versions instead for the fun of it lol.

[excelsior]

• Publisher - Squaresoft
• Developer - Squaresoft
• Genre - RPG
• Initial Release - 11 March 1995

The Millennium. A portal has opened. The chain of time is broken. A young man is transported to the past, altering the course of history and the outcome of the future. He has to find his way home, but first he must travel to the outer edges of time to repair the world's chronology. On the way he encounters strange friends and foes, utilizes incredible devices and vehicles, and penetrates and neutralizes the forstresses of the past, present and future. A paradox has been created. If he does not restore the order of time, nothing will ever be the same. He is the one who will become a hero. He is Chrono.

  

  

[excelsior]

OK, I'm in a gripey mood this week, so let's get this one out of the way. So, we all know Chrono Trigger. It's that game that's widely held on a pedestal as a definitive must-play experience. There's a good reason: Chrono Trigger prioritises cinematics and accessibility. Chrono Trigger is a very valid suggestion for an early JRPG experience, or for players looking for a game they can comfortably breeze through and enjoy the ride. On the flip side it is also an incredibly shallow experience. I'll admit, the first couple of hours which focuses on the story setup are well done and enjoyable, but beyond that everything just goes downhill.

There simply isn't much story to break up the action, leaving it to the combat system to keep us absorbed. Whilst the combat offers a good number of attacks which are unlocked throughout, and systems to play with, the problem is it's all just window dressing. None of the systems or abilities matter in the face of encounter design which clearly had the goal of ensuring anybody would beat it and taking that to a ridiculous degree. It's just impossible to lose. There's no reason to use anything beyond the most basic of attacks on standard enemies, or most powerful attacks and heal on bosses. There's no engagement. I genuinely used mash the attack button to win on all standard enemies in this game and, whilst I shouldn't have been able to be over levelled, didn't come close to dying. I would honestly consider this the easiest game I've ever played. Even Super Mario RPG offered some resistance. 

There has to be something to keep me invested and Chrono Trigger just doesn't have anything. The story is the best part, but it's largely absent, with an idea of being lost in time. This doesn't really work for me either, since you really need to suspend your disbelief when transported to the bland, empty past and future worlds. I'm sorry to say that Akira Toriyama's artwork, which does wonders for the Dragon Quest series, simply doesn't translate for me here. The character sprites are ugly. Perhaps they were just overdesigned. The audio is definitely the best part, but even there, there's only a handful of tracks I enjoy. 

So, yeah, I know you'll all disagree with me, some of you strongly. I see the appeal of Chrono Trigger, and could certainly raise my ranking by trying to be more objective. I just don't think that would be me being honest with myself. I don't want to just be swayed by popular opinion. The truth is, I find very little to like here. 

Ranking - D

[dsparil]

I wouldn't be that hard on it, but I always did find it overrated. Maybe it was a lot of people's first RPG so there's nostalgia as a factor. When it came out, the element of it being a DQ and FF fusion with Sakaguchi, Toriyama and Horii working on a game together not that it really mattered outside Japan though. It should get some credit for popularizing NG+, but all the talk about its multiple endings irritated me. It makes it seem like the game has a branching plot, but it doesn't. You just get different endings with no narrative ties depending on when you decide to fight the final boss on an NG+. It's like they came up with a bunch of different ones, and then plopped in the ones they decided to not use.

That being said, I would give the combat system a little credit. There are games that clone it badly so there was some skill in putting it together in the first place. I also don't think it's that story light all things considered, and I do remember some parts of it despite not playing it in decades. I'd go with something like a B+. I've always thought of it as a low high tier game. It is a classic on the platform, but I think some of its continued reputations stems from all the RPGs we didn't get back then some of which still haven't been officially translated like Bahamut Lagoon.

[Woody Alien 2]

I love Chrono Trigger and I can't stand Contra.
That's it, that's the post.

[spanky]

Man! Excelsior feeling harsh! Chrono Trigger is a great game, maybe close to perfect on some sort of technical level, but there are a lot of valid criticisms you could levy at it. I kinda look at the game as JRPG version of a good popcorn movie. It flashy, exciting and moves too quickly for you really question any plot holes. Buuuut yeah, the plot isn't super deep (I've seen some insane headcanons people have made in an attempt to make the plot more interesting) and the gameplay, while it has some very cool ideas, is not super deep either. It's hard to hate on the game though, as it's real roller coaster, looks and sounds amazing and has a phenomenal soundtrack. There's just so many cool moments, the trial scene, Magus's castle, the shocking conclusion of the Ocean Palace....

It's an A. It does help if you played the game in it's original context...but you could say that about a lot of SNES games I suppose. There's RPGs I like better on the system but if I were to recommend one RPG on the system to a newbie, it would be this one.

[Snake]

Chrono Trigger 

I love it as much as Final Fantasy III SNES/VI.  Akira Toriyama's design and artwork lends his sense of balance between drama and subtle humor.  The soundtrack, courtesy of Yasunori Mitsuda with a few pieces from Nobuo Uematsu, are among Square's all time masterpiece greats. The battle system is simple enough, yet strategic use of techs and combo attacks can help you get through.  Especially the triple team attacks just a fun treat with a sense of theatre, but deliver oh so much delicious damage with the right party.  I bought this game with my own cash no launch day, and trucked through for 2 day straight.  And while the ending left me with a bittersweet sense that it ended, I wasted no time at all getting to New Game+ and hunting down each ending variation, with some of the coolest being the one where each member of the staff leave their own alter ego and message. 

I really love the overall plot, the sense of comraderie, even though having to split up the party feels inconsistent at parts.  I pushed on, seeing the future, curious to see how the world became doomed, and how would it be even possible to stop it?  It was fun to treasure hunt between time periods, and to see the effects of a changed past unlock cool power ups and weaponry in the future, and to go back to all those mysterious pyramids and doors and chests that were denied to you for half the game.  The pacing feels nonstop, yet the overall length of the game doesn't get too drawn out and long in the tooth.  

This was a game that has etched an indefinite mark on this one's soul.

Rank - SSS

[excelsior]

Jul 24, 2024 12:47:10 GMT -5 Woody Alien 2 said:

I love Chrono Trigger and I can't stand Contra.
That's it, that's the post.

Admirably succinct.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Gotta give CT an A, I found it well paced for a 16-bit JRPG and with various memorable moments, most having been mentioned by spanky already. The story is pretty entertaining with a few touching moments; sure there are various plotholes but that goes for all Square RPGs that I can recall playing. Audiovisually it's fantastic, one of my faves. 

excelsior Which older JRPGs do you think have the best combat systems and difficulty balance?

[excelsior]

Jul 25, 2024 9:55:12 GMT -5 ommadawnyawn2 said:

excelsior Which older JRPGs do you think have the best combat systems and difficulty balance?

Difficultywise Earthbound does a nice job. That game is able to create tension within a simple system. I'm not expecting a great deal of challenge here, just above zero.

For systems, I really like the combat in Phantasy Star IV. The macro system makes combat breezy and fun, even though there isn't a great deal of challenge. Final Fantasy V does well with its job system for me. You do become too powerful and can expect to ultimately 'break' the game, but that is rewarding in of itself to me. Live A Live is interesting with varying results imo. Treasure Hunter G is nice. Chrono Trigger probably has strong systems, it just needs to make use of them for me to actually engage. That said, I hate the way enemies are encountered in the overworld. If I want to revisit an area I'm trapped into the same combat scenarios. I find that really tedious and would prefer a random encounter system.

It again applies to PSIV, but also other Final Fantasys etc, often the story is better paced, and I often enjoy the game world and audio more, so they just keep me more engaged. I may sound harsh, but I just need something to keep me engaged throughout. If the game isn't challenging but the story is constantly keeping me entertained, or even I can just bop along to the soundtrack in combat, then I can have a good time with an RPG. I don't really get anything at all from CT. My rankings prioritise entertainment and engagement.

[ommadawnyawn2]

Well, it's cool to see diverse opinions on games that are rarely criticized anymore. I'll have to try Treasure Hunter G sometime.

I didn't enjoy playing Earthbound that much (finally beat it last year in emulation and with a QoL hack), but I did like most of the writing and music.

[spanky]

Earthbound is kind of tough at the beginning but it's pretty easy to overlevel yourself, I always do easy grinding after the dungeons when the enemies are flagged to flee from you. Also I always try to get the Sword of Kings and I'm insanely strong by the time I've killed 100 Starmen Supers. I should really play through the game UNDERleveled sometime where I'm forced to use more items and PSI state boosting techniques.

[excelsior]

JRPG's tend to become easier as your options open up. I don't think there's many that manage to avoid that.

[personman]

Chrono Trigger is frustrating.

I can see why it gets its praise, I have no doubt in my mind that it is a classic. I even enjoy the soundtrack a ton and have had some orchestrations and remixes in my playlist for years. From what I remember listening to retrospectives and such it even sounds like the plot is pretty damn solid for what it is and manages to do a time travel story half way right which is a rarity in general.

But I was always just so. God. Damn. SICK of hearing about it! Everywhere I looked and turned non stop Chrono this! Chrono that! Greatest game of all time and it all anyone wanted to talk about. When I worked at Gamestop I have three memories of people just shoe horning their love of this damn game when it was completely irrelevant to the conversation. It was like a fucking cult. I can say similar things about Final Fantasy 7 or Ocarina of Time but no where near as obnoxious as CT fans were.

So every time I've tried to play it I just can't stand the thing. I only managed to get up to the earliest part the Black Omen shows up cause a friend at the time forced me into it thus making me hate it even more. I of course bailed as soon as he left me to keep going on my own lol. Maybe it was just my luck that I was around a bunch of crazies online and off for this thing but it has been raised up to such a ridiculous rapturous pedestal that I find so stupid I can't stand looking at the thing for more than a minute. Plus people pressured me to play it so much I just refuse to out of spite, the generations of games just seem to be getting worse and worse and I hate crap like Fortnite and all that as much as the next 30-something person but you know what? At least I don't hear about this game nearly as much anymore.

Anyways, ranking uh... I dunno, A. Now get it out of my sight.



(I am of course being half way hyperbolic for fun. Halfway )