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Post by ReyVGM on Feb 14, 2007 16:23:44 GMT -5
That doesn't 'sound' at all like you Kurt. Calling Actraiser's and soulblazer's sound effects and music "lame", "cheesy"and "laughable" is enough reason to commit murder! Lame. That word should be deleted from every HG101 article that features it. Everytime I see that word in an article it just brings gamefaqs reviews images to my head. It seems that you probably played poor Soul Blazer at the end of the SNES cycle and not when it came out. It's either that or you were spoiled by Ys and Falcom
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 14, 2007 16:28:50 GMT -5
I didn't. David DeRienzo did (wrote Breath of Fire, Last Blade, few others)
I actually haven't played Soul Blazer at all.
I prefer the word "lousy" myself, so I changed it to that.
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Post by ReyVGM on Feb 14, 2007 16:45:32 GMT -5
Sigh...
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 14, 2007 16:52:09 GMT -5
Is Soul Blazer's music actually any good? The little bit I listened to wasn't that great.
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Post by ReyVGM on Feb 14, 2007 17:22:28 GMT -5
Well, several factors come into play into liking game music. If you didn't play the game back then, it's obvious you'll find it archaic. If you listen to the music without actually playing the game, that might downplay the impact of the music. Sometimes music get stuck on your head after listening it for a few times and not just a glance. And no, I don't consider the music on par or superior to FF6 or CT, but it's certainly not lame or cheesy, not when it came out, not at all. If people are going to judge it by today's standards then FF6's opera scene would be one of the silliest music tracks on an RPG.
BACK THEN, stuff like having to kill all the enemies to open new parts of the town was not boring, it was great. There wasn't a game like it on the SNES or NES.
I bet you that you probably spent hours upon hours trying to get all of Gau's Rages in FF6, right? Now apply that same situation on your current way of living, I'd bet you would not do it would you?
Back then when you were 12 or 15 years old, when you had nothing to do except go to school in the morning, spending your time finding every monster to slay to completely open up the town was a joy to do. The enemies weren't even hiding, so it wasn't like you had to go out of your way to kill them either. The music never got repetitive to me and frankly I haven't heard anyone else say otherwise until today, especially considering most SNES tracks are about 40 seconds long before repeating again.
But then again, I was an SNES child. It was the only system I had and obviously I could only play what fell on my hands. But I don't think it was the lack of games or lack of a different console experience that made me appreciate that game, because if that's the case then lots of people would be ripping the game apart today.
Sure, the game is not perfect, but the way he's talking about it in the article it's as if he played it only once back then or as if he recently played it for the first time.
I'm pretty sure that if you take games like FF6 and F-zero by today's standards the result wouldn't be pretty.
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Post by Neo Rasa on Feb 15, 2007 2:28:56 GMT -5
Parts of Soul Blazer's soundtrack sounds more like a Fat Boys album than a battle between God's earthly avatar and the forces of darkness but I don't see how anyone could reasonably doubt its overall quality. The actual sequencing quality was made obsolete once Enix's other games started coming out but the compositions themselves are very good.
The Actraiser 2 soundtrack especially is one of the more qualified symphonic works on the SNES sound chip. It holds up very effectively even today and I can't believe anyone would have a problem with it. Not liking cinematic score music is one thing but not being able to set that aside and perceive whether or not the music is good for what it is is a shame. Like rey said, Soul Blazer's soundtrack isn't a timeless classic but I would never classify it as lame.
That said, I am of the opinion that no logical statement can be made against the quality of the music in both Actraiser games.
Soul Blazer has a very effective (and intentionally humorous at times) translation as well. Much better than most RPGs to come out around that period. In addition, the epic scope of taking back the world piece by piece and each piece being significant to the whole is very difficult to create in video games (be it based around towns like Soul Blazer or even pieces of hallway in a first person shooter). This is a quality that is typically only in the realm of the older PC turn based strategy games. Soul Blazer is one of the few action games games that accomplishes this. You constantly feel like you're making a difference.
Also it gets major points for not having money to buy items with. Unlike other RPGs the shop owners are basically like "You're saving the world from evil, take whatever you want."
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Feb 15, 2007 12:17:37 GMT -5
That doesn't 'sound' at all like you Kurt. Calling Actraiser's and soulblazer's sound effects and music "lame", "cheesy"and "laughable" is enough reason to commit murder! Lame. That word should be deleted from every HG101 article that features it. Everytime I see that word in an article it just brings gamefaqs reviews images to my head. It seems that you probably played poor Soul Blazer at the end of the SNES cycle and not when it came out. It's either that or you were spoiled by Ys and Falcom Fanboys are so adorable. I played Actraiser and Soul Blazer WAAAY back in the day. Not quite when they came out, but close enough. I got an SNES for Link to the Past, and I got ActRaiser at the same time. Soul Blazer shortly thereafter. The only Ys games I'd played up to that point were the Turbo CD game and Ys III (also on SNES). Let's face it, a lot of the adoration for elements in old games stems from nostalgia, something that is devoid of any universal merit and has absolutely no effect on me at all. I used to have a blast playing PitFighter back in the day, but coming back to it recently I realize how god awful it was and could only say to myself, "Jesus Christ, what the hell was I thinking?" I'd go as far as to say some of Soul Blazer's music was outright horrible, like the god awful underwater world theme, but I didn't go to that length in the article. I thought overall, some of it was catchy, like Dr. Leo's Lab, but some of it just made me laugh, honestly. Don't take it personally, okay?
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 15, 2007 12:44:42 GMT -5
Nostalgia is important and it's probably why a lot of us are into retro games, so reviews should be written keeping in mind the era it came out. But weighing in on how well it holds up today is ultimately more important.
I still have to listen the music (should grab the SPCs now) so I can't really judge it, but otherwise there didn't seem to be anything else overtly negative. I can't even remember the sound effects from Actraiser, but the article seemed to be comparing it to how awesome the music was in that game, and how much Soul Blazer fails to live up to it.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Feb 15, 2007 13:09:17 GMT -5
Nostalgia is important and it's probably why a lot of us are into retro games Oh, I'm not saying nostalgia isn't important. It's VERY important, to certain individuals. I'm just saying, it has no universal merit. People shouldn't throw up a bunch of articles on websites like this just because they like them. They should have some sort of appeal beyond that. The overall game's nostalgia isn't really what I was poking at, it was the nostalgia that makes one tolerate elements of mediocrity, and even try to make excuses for it. Soul Blazer is a good game, and I feel that I made that pretty clear in the article, but there are certain aspects of it that just aren't up to par, not even for their relative time period (which is how I judge everything). I wasn't really comparing the soundtracks. That's a little unreasonable. It's Yuzo Koshiro, for god's sakes.
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 15, 2007 14:07:44 GMT -5
Oh, that was more directed towards Rey. I should use the Quote button more often. What you've stated is more or less my sentiments exactly.
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Post by zzz on Feb 15, 2007 15:58:10 GMT -5
Getting WAY off topic here, but "because they like them" is the only standard that works as I see it. As long as it is obscure, being good is enough to merit it being considered fair game. That attitude allows a diverse array of entries rather than a Jeff Gerstman, or Tommy T., or whatever other horse's ass writer at Gamespot, like standard about what makes a game legitamate. Obviously you were not claimng certain games were not legitamate, I was saying that a restrictive standard will result in that.
Also I would watch it with the term "fanboy". I don't mean to be a asshole about it, but that term always risks spiraling a topic out of control.
About nostalgia, I am certain there are people who are nostalgic about video games, but many people just like straight forward gameplay based video games.
About the idea of "today's standards", I honestly have no idea what that even means. Trends change, but I do not believe quality ceilings or floors change. I do not see judging a game any way other than "is this enjoyable".
To reyvgm:
"Today's standards"? Really? If you ask me MIDI blips and bleeps beats arranged B.S. by pop acts any day. I have to mute certain modern video games. My favorite audio in a video game is Last Blade's ambient "field recording" effects.
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Post by ReyVGM on Feb 15, 2007 17:21:08 GMT -5
"Fanboys are so adorable."Please don't call me a fanboy, you don't know me and you don't know what I've played. "I used to have a blast playing PitFighter back in the day, but coming back to it recently I realize how god awful it was and could only say to myself, "Jesus Christ, what the hell was I thinking?"Well luckily I was always able to discern between good games and bad games. PitFighter has ALWAYS been a bad game. If you got caught in the whole 'omg real life graphics' bandwagon then thank god you eventually realized the error of your ways. But actually liking PitFighter and not liking Soul Blazer as much back in the days doesn't really help your argument "Don't take it personally, okay? "I wasn't, until you called me a fanboy... no just kidding, hehe. I just think... no, I'm sure your opinion regarding the music is ways off. It's not the sentiment of most of the opinions and reviews I've seen since the game came out. Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you really want to put an objective article calling SB's music lame, silly and laughable then go ahead. At least you should have the decency of saying that's what YOU thought of the music, especially considering that's not the general concensus. After all, you aren't writing a cranky gamers article I don't find Ys music anything special, arranged or not, but I don't put it down because I know it MUST have something special I'm not understanding if so many people love it. "Nostalgia is important and it's probably why a lot of us are into retro games, so reviews should be written keeping in mind the era it came out. But weighing in on how well it holds up today is ultimately more important."True, true, but by that logic a game like Castlevania 3 or Zelda 1 should now get terrible reviews considering a lot of games have done it better since then. The game has good graphics, has good controls, good music, it's not really hard and non confusing. A real bad thing the game has is that when an enemy touches you it will keep draining your energy until you get away from him, very similar to Ys. Like I said before, the game is not FF6 or CT caliber, but it's certainly not nearly as bad as revolverocelot made it to be. Regarding the music, Neorasa's post said better what I tried to say. "Today's standards"? Really? If you ask me MIDI blips and bleeps beats arranged B.S. by pop acts any day. I have to mute certain modern video games. My favorite audio in a video game is Last Blade's ambient "field recording" effects. "Did I say the opposite? Castlevania Curse of Darkness has better sound quality than Castlevania 3, but CV3 has way better sound composition. Because of that I would rather hear the bleeps and bloops of CV3 than the symphonic whatchamacallit music of Curse of Darkness To end the post I'll say that my English communication skills aren't on a high enough point to further explain my point of view in a better way. Neorasa said it better, simpler and in less words. Besides, it's not like anyone of us will win anything by arguing this. I just feel the article is ways off regarding the music, I like the music not because of nostalgia, I liked the music the moment I played the game back then when it came out. It's not something that grew on me after the years of playing it. Despite stealing sound effects from ActRaiser or the game having the same "theme", I didn't expect the title to mimic or surpass AR's soundtrack. Maybe you don't like the music because some are just weird AKA different? Maybe hearing it 4 times made you hate it and call it repetitive and for other people made them appreciate the quirkiness of it?
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Post by zzz on Feb 15, 2007 17:50:02 GMT -5
"I'm pretty sure that if you take games like FF6 and F-zero by today's standards the result wouldn't be pretty."
This is the comment I was talking about. I was saying that I do not believe there is a different standard for video game music. Myself, I dislike arranged music, or "real" music in general. I honestly consider the opening music from SMB to be the most "important" composition to have any pop culture exposure of the last twenty eight years at least.
I was not trying to be argumenitive about anything, just the opposite. I was trying to say that I could see this topic moving in a direction that is generally not appreciated by anybody at this site and was hoping we could consiously acknowlege that and avoid that, while still being able to discuss the points that were brought up here.
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Post by Revolver Ocelot on Feb 15, 2007 22:26:32 GMT -5
Please don't call me a fanboy, you don't know me and you don't know what I've played. That wasn't really meant to be taken seriously, although, with all due respects, you were at least ACTING like a fanboy. That's not why. I liked it because it was fun and silly, but over the years I've learned that fun is very inconsistent whereas quality is much more solid. When did I say I didn't like Soul Blazer as much as Pit Fighter? Obviously I like Soul Blazer otherwise I wouldn't have spent a great deal of time that could've been spent being a better student writing an article about it and its successors. Just because I don't worship every aspect of the game and maintain a realistic appraisal of its individual categories doesn't mean the overall package is weak. Anything anyone says about anything in an article or review should automatically be assumed to be someone's opinion without the need of the author stating such. When was the last time you heard Ebbert say "This movie didn't suck, I just didn't like it." If you're subjective about what you write, there's not really any point in writing it. There's plenty of articles on this very site that bash certain games (and I'm not speaking to Cranky Gamers), but you seemed to be okay with them until it was a game YOU liked. Or maybe I've heard a lot more music and have a more cultured sense about it? Experience is also a major factor in taste, not to sound snotty or anything, but while we're making baseless assumptions, I thought I'd just throw that one in. I don't appreciate quirkiness, I appreciate quality. This is why I find games like Earthbound to be pieces of shit. Quirkiness is good and all, but if it sucks, I couldn't care less if it was the most off the wall thing on the planet. If I want quirky, I'm not going to play Earthbound, I'll play a Tim Schafer game and not suffer as much.
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Post by Discoalucard on Feb 15, 2007 22:48:06 GMT -5
Whenever I write for here, I usually try to be more subjective, in general. In general this means staying more positive, even for games I feel are kinda middle of the road. But at the same time, if you're not injecting your opinion in something, you may as well be writing a Wikipedia article, which is ultimately pretty useless. If I don't like certain aspects of a game or think they suck overall, I'll mention it.
And when randomly Googling stuff to find the SPC set for Soulblazer, I did find a lot of negative comments regarding it (along with some disagreements to those.) So it's not like the opinions stated are THAT outrageous.
Anyway, so, uh, Pit Fighter sure does rock, huh?
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