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Post by marginwalker on May 19, 2009 12:20:22 GMT -5
This is something I had in my head after the advent of Super Street Fighter 2 HD Remix and the sonicretro.org Sonic 2 HD fan project. I've thought about it a while, and I'm sure it's crossed some of your minds too, but only recently have I started to make something tangible. As many of you probably know both of those aforementioned projects are examples of development hell, mostly on the graphics side. I've got a lot of problems with how the sonic 2 hd project is going personally, but let's not get into that. So that said, let me say now that this is just an exhibition. It's something personally I'd like to complete, but even if I put all my effort into it, every day, it would be years before something playable came about. . The main reason I post this is to plant the seeds of things to come. Now I'm a graphics and pixels guy, I know nothing of programming. But as far as I know there's no easy way to just transplant updated graphics on top of a nintendo game, it'd have to be built from the ground up. So if anyone here has that knowledge, and wants to start their own pet programming project, maybe someday many moons from now our ideas could merge into a real game. Enough talk, have at you! LAZY UGLY PROTOTYPE - WILL IMPROVE threw pochi in there just because I had his sprite done. [edit - new mockup] Note that this is not HD. I don't like vectors, or perfect gradations, I like pixel art. And changing aspect ratios, or adding any kind of border, would just ruin the look. So I went for the most comfortable size to work at, which was 3x. Big enough to add some detail, but not a ridiculous amount that wouldn't resemble the original game. If you want to contribute sprites and tiles, go ahead, but just know that I won't just throw it in the pile, I'm kind of an egomaniac art director and have an extremely fine bullshit filter. Other people's work could help me as a jumping off point though. Feel free to go crazy with ideas! As I said, this is all to plant the seeds of inspiration, even if I never finish, someone could very well pick up where I left off.
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Post by Ike on May 19, 2009 12:23:48 GMT -5
Get this playable on Wii or DS and I will fellate you
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Post by King Frost on May 19, 2009 12:41:31 GMT -5
Since the game uses CHR ROM, it would be pretty straightforward to modify an open source NES emulator to use your improved graphics instead of the original artwork. To make it easy to implement, you should use the exact same colors as the original artwork (if the original sprite uses only 3 colors, you must only use these colors and nothing else). Otherwise, a ROM hack will most likely also be necessary and will make the programming harder to do.
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Post by megatronbison on May 19, 2009 12:42:22 GMT -5
chuck in a map and I would actually play the game for the first time ever.
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Post by marginwalker on May 19, 2009 14:55:39 GMT -5
If I used the same exact color limitations there'd be little point and I'd have to give up the cel shading style I have going, you might as well just play the game on an hq3x filter. Just did this, will update with fireball later. *edit* still needs tweaking I'd like to have more fluid animation, but with the same exact timings, so it doesn't throw off the combat. Right now I'm not too anal about it though.
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Post by Ike on May 19, 2009 15:14:06 GMT -5
She looks fantastic, but to be honest Pochi could use some work. Right now he looks like he just shot himself up with heroin.
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Post by King Frost on May 19, 2009 15:18:55 GMT -5
The problem of using more colors is the fact that sprites are often used with different color palettes on the NES. A classic example of that is the cloud sprite in SMB that is also used as bushes. If you use different colors or more than the 3 original colors, either:
1) You will have to create a sprite for each palette change present in the game 2) Use a math algorithm to calculate the effect of a palette swap
Both of these solutions will make the programming more tricky but should not be too bad to do for an experienced programmer. Solution 1 will be longer to do but will give better results.
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Post by Ike on May 19, 2009 15:20:38 GMT -5
This game is basically nothing but palette swaps. Making new sprites for each of them would be a god damn nightmare.
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Post by marginwalker on May 19, 2009 15:25:00 GMT -5
I'm aware of how games economically use their palettes. This is why I said in the first post it'd have to be made from the ground up. A hacked game would just be a hack job. I think this is what sonic retro is doing - they're not hacking sonic 2, they've got the physics engine and stuff all figured out, they're basically making a new game based on an old one. I know that makes things way more complicated but I couldn't envision a proper revival any other way.
edit - if it isn't clear what i'm saying is the nes game would just be blueprints, the remix would be built on and for pc.
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Post by evilakito on May 19, 2009 17:36:27 GMT -5
edit - if it isn't clear what i'm saying is the nes game would just be blueprints, the remix would be built on and for pc. Exactly how similar do you want this game to be to the original? I've honestly never played Legacy of the Wizard, but from what I know about the game, it doesn't seem terribly complex. But if you're trying to perfectly mimic the game's physics and enemy behavior, that sounds like a pretty difficult undertaking.
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Post by Ike on May 19, 2009 17:57:13 GMT -5
Which map layout would you be using, the NES one or the MSX one?
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Post by marginwalker on May 19, 2009 18:13:29 GMT -5
The msx version does have map improvements, notably the location of items made more sense. In the nes version it's screwed and I usually end up getting stuff from shops, which sort of cheapens the experience. And you actually have to find the shield instead of going to that silly hidden shop. I've always preferred the nes version though just for the sake of aesthetics and screen scrolling, but I think the msx map is superior. Going to have to go back and play it and take notes. I've never actually gone all the way to the end, bluemsx and savestates were never kind to me and I'm not hardcore enough to do it legit.
And yes it would be a difficult undertaking. But for now this is just fantasy. Doesn't seem impossible though. I think the games are awesome and it wouldn't be right to deviate from the core design. So it'd be as close as possible, trying to take the best from both versions, and with optional bonuses maybe.
Oh and I figured out a way to perfectly mimic the enemy behavior in Legacy of the Wizard. What I will do is get a crackhead to program the AI.
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Post by wyrdwad on May 19, 2009 19:44:04 GMT -5
I love this idea. (: And I especially love the idea of using the MSX maps, since most (if not all) of us are MUCH less familiar with them than their NES counterparts, meaning there'd actually be something new to explore for those of us who've already played this game on the NES. I don't think I can offer much assistance to you, but I will wish you the best of luck, as I'd really, really love to play this some day. -Tom P.S. Dunno if you've thought about using a pre-existing engine for the programming and tiling side of this project, but if not, you might want to consider VERGE. For a game like this, I believe VERGE would make life a lot easier: www.verge-rpg.com
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Post by evilakito on May 19, 2009 20:49:14 GMT -5
Wow, I totally forgot about Verge. I suppose that would probably be the easiest route to go. Though if you wanted to code your game engine from the ground up, and have basic C/C++ programming knowledge, you could use a 2D game programming library such as Allegro or SDL.
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Post by Scylla on May 19, 2009 21:29:52 GMT -5
Cute. :) Now just make the game not destroy one's will to live. :P
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