|
|
Post by dire51 on Aug 19, 2009 13:20:22 GMT -5
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. The existing Strider games are much too linear and have barely any semblance of story, which is something I would like to see expanded upon. The formula worked great for turning Castlevania into a much deeper, more rewarding game, and it didn't even take advantage of all the cool wall-climbing stuff that Strider can do. One of my favorite things to do in Strider is to climb to all the places that I couldn't normally go in a sidescroller. Strider gameplay in a Metroidvania-style layout with a game that I can't completely beat in an hour and a half could be nothing but awesome. The last thing anyone needs is another Metroidvania, especially after Konami bludgeoned the concept to death with a claw hammer. The NES Strider was the closest we got, and for the time it was a nice change of pace, but I'm fine for leaving that one where it is. To me, Strider has always been about flat-out action. It's an adrenaline rush and a half, especially with bits like outracing the explosion down the hill. The mere idea of a Strider that's going to take hours to finish just doesn't sit well with me. And does every game need to have its story expanded? No. Strider certainly doesn't. And on the subject of Castlevania, the Metroidvanias killed it, and games like Judgment were just additional nails in the coffin. That's a series that needs to go back to basics. |
|
|
|
Post by loempiavreter on Aug 19, 2009 13:23:57 GMT -5
The only way Strider could be made better is if they make it into a Metroidvania. If any character deserves that, it's Strider. NEVEEEEEERRRR The guy aboves me speak for truth. Why must everything be a long boring walk. Stick to linearity! |
|
|
|
Post by shion on Aug 19, 2009 13:38:56 GMT -5
It pales in comparison to the first in every aspect. That's what was wrong with it.  I'm going to have to, like Kmimi, respectfully disagree: I thought it nailed Strider pretty much down to the last pixel and Osman was way, way over-the-top in comparison--sort of a Western idea of a sequel in that it was bigger, louder and more exaggerated than the first. (Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed it, but it wasn't as good a game as S2.) That said, another Strider is always a good thing, provided it isn't Strider Returns but it's doubtful that any sequel will ever top the original. (Even going the BC Rearmed route probably wouldn't get the job done since, unlike most everybody else, I felt that the character of the gameplay was changed just enough to make it inferior to the original.) And, yeah, please: no Stridervania. They can plug in some basic RPG-lite elements that take effect across multiple play-throughs (a la Radiant Silvergun's weapon levelling mechanic) but let's not make this into a long traipse across Eurasia with some sword-fighting thrown in now and again. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2009 13:42:44 GMT -5
It seems like every single planned game rumor from Capcom aludes to Strider, and every time, it turns out to be not Strider. This is frustrating enough for me to always believe at this point that it will be NOT Strider every time the name is dropped. In fact, the only time I'll hope for when it IS a new Strider is if it's a more-obscure Capcom property that's going to be revamped... say, for example, The Speed Rumbler.  Seriously, can't Capcom at least give us an explanation about why a new Strider is in perpetual stasis? Throw us a bone here! I'm losing hope, but it will only be ALL gone by 2019, the 30th anniversary of the original Strider. |
|
|
|
Post by dire51 on Aug 19, 2009 13:44:47 GMT -5
I also wanted to take a second and point this out. How exactly did taking a game like Castlevania - which required a genuine amount of skill to work your way into and finish - and turning it into a level-up-until-you're-so-powerful-that-you-can-take-out-Dracula-in-two-seconds kind of game, make it more rewarding? Maybe it made it more rewarding if you were terrible at the classics, but that's about it. I grew up on Castlevania. I needed to hone my skills to finish the originals. Some of them took me weeks, even months, to finish. But when SotN came out with its automapping and leveling structure, I was done in a matter of days. This included finishing both castles and finding nearly all areas and getting damn near everything. If you find it rewarding to play a game that well, nearly anyone with some time to spend leveling up can finish, more power to you. I, on the other hand, do prefer a game that requires some skill to finish. It seems like every single planned game rumor from Capcom aludes to Strider, and every time, it turns out to be not Strider. This is frustrating enough for me to always believe at this point that it will be NOT Strider every time the name is dropped. In fact, the only time I'll hope for when it IS a new Strider is if it's a more-obscure Capcom property that's going to be revamped... say, for example, The Speed Rumbler. Seriously, can't Capcom at least give us an explanation about why a new Strider is in perpetual stasis? Throw us a bone here! I'm losing hope, but it will only be ALL gone by 2019, the 30th anniversary of the original Strider. I second that completely, Mike. |
|
|
|
Post by kitten on Aug 19, 2009 13:52:51 GMT -5
Shhh! Don't give them any ideas. Street Fighter II HD Remix was was already bad enough as it is. Bah, come on guys, Backbone Entertainment are pretty cool dudes. Commando 3 and 1942: Joint Strike honestly weren't bad games, and I was glad to play both of them (especially 1942). UDON did most of the work on SFII: HD Remix anyway, didn't they? I know they did all the work on the sprites, and that took forever. |
|
|
|
Post by shion on Aug 19, 2009 13:55:31 GMT -5
Seriously, can't Capcom at least give us an explanation about why a new Strider is in perpetual stasis? Throw us a bone here! I'm losing hope, but it will only be ALL gone by 2019, the 30th anniversary of the original Strider. Playing the anti-cynic for once, perhaps Capcom is practicing Nintendo-style game development: working on it until it's damn near perfect, even if it takes a half-decade to get it right. You may not have noticed but "skill" and modern games rarely have much of a chat and, if they do, it results in things like auto-recharging life bars and unlimited continues thus making easy games easier still. (I can at least accept unlimited continues since I don't have to use them, but recharging life bars are just this side of ridiculous, serving as little more than a crutch for 'cinematic' gaming to really work--all those carefully-choreographed set pieces would work a lot less well if you couldn't make a billion errors and still walk away relatively unscathed or, worst-case, run back and hide behind a wall while the AI lets you get back up to full strength.) As far as CV goes, yeah, LOD is about as 'convoluted' as I want my games in the series to get: you get a little side-exploration but the whole game isn't about walking from point A to point Z. (This isn't to say I don't enjoy the Castleroids, but there isn't really much Castlevania about them--I suppose I'd be more sanguine about it if they stripped out the leveling aspect, but that's there for the same reason recharging life bars are there, i.e. to make the game much more accessible to today's players.) |
|
|
|
Post by dire51 on Aug 19, 2009 14:17:35 GMT -5
You may not have noticed but "skill" and modern games rarely have much of a chat and, if they do, it results in things like auto-recharging life bars and unlimited continues thus making easy games easier still. (I can at least accept unlimited continues since I don't have to use them, but recharging life bars are just this side of ridiculous, serving as little more than a crutch for 'cinematic' gaming to really work--all those carefully-choreographed set pieces would work a lot less well if you couldn't make a billion errors and still walk away relatively unscathed or, worst-case, run back and hide behind a wall while the AI lets you get back up to full strength.) Aye, I've noticed. A sad state of affairs, that. In fact, it reminds me of an article from an old issue of Digital Press, "Your Powers Are Weak, Old Man." I'll quote some of the best bits here: As far as CV goes, yeah, LOD is about as 'convoluted' as I want my games in the series to get: you get a little side-exploration but the whole game isn't about walking from point A to point Z. (This isn't to say I don't enjoy the Castleroids, but there isn't really much Castlevania about them--I suppose I'd be more sanguine about it if they stripped out the leveling aspect, but that's there for the same reason recharging life bars are there, i.e. to make the game much more accessible to today's players.) I can't do the Metroidvanias any more. I just can't. Not only do they no longer feel like Castlevania, but I've had enough of "wander 2 hours, talk with characters who will vanish until more 2 hours into the game, grinding grinding grinding caaaaastlemap!" Just give me Stage 1 to 7 or something where I whip shit into oblivion. An "old school vampire killing jam." That's all I ask. |
|
|
|
Post by shion on Aug 19, 2009 14:24:03 GMT -5
You may not have noticed but "skill" and modern games rarely have much of a chat and, if they do, it results in things like auto-recharging life bars and unlimited continues thus making easy games easier still. (I can at least accept unlimited continues since I don't have to use them, but recharging life bars are just this side of ridiculous, serving as little more than a crutch for 'cinematic' gaming to really work--all those carefully-choreographed set pieces would work a lot less well if you couldn't make a billion errors and still walk away relatively unscathed or, worst-case, run back and hide behind a wall while the AI lets you get back up to full strength.) Aye, I've noticed. A sad state of affairs, that. In fact, it reminds me of an article from an old issue of Digital Press, "Your Powers Are Weak, Old Man." I'll quote some of the best bits here: As far as CV goes, yeah, LOD is about as 'convoluted' as I want my games in the series to get: you get a little side-exploration but the whole game isn't about walking from point A to point Z. (This isn't to say I don't enjoy the Castleroids, but there isn't really much Castlevania about them--I suppose I'd be more sanguine about it if they stripped out the leveling aspect, but that's there for the same reason recharging life bars are there, i.e. to make the game much more accessible to today's players.) I can't do the Metroidvanias any more. I just can't. Not only do they no longer feel like Castlevania, but I've had enough of "wander 2 hours, talk with characters who will vanish until more 2 hours into the game, grinding grinding grinding caaaaastlemap!" Just give me Stage 1 to 7 or something where I whip shit into oblivion. An "old school vampire killing jam." That's all I ask. I hear ya, but I love exploration games, generally, so even though these games aren't really Castelvania, IGA's games are, if nothing else, competent in the genre. (That said, I'd give my left testicle for a direct follow-up, play-wise, to Drac X or even a remake of CVIII as I'm getting desperate.) |
|
|
|
Post by justjustin on Aug 19, 2009 14:26:23 GMT -5
Yeah, to me the Strider series (and Osman) are some of the most thrilling action games ever created and thrive on their linear structure. I wouldn't want 'em any other way. It's interesting to see that the things Ike wants in a Strider sequel (that would make for a stronger, better game) are literally the opposite of what makes sense to me. Not saying it's wrong or anything, but just a very different point of view! I mean, Strider is pretty iconic in every sense and I don't think the metroidvania framework could facilitate the things that make Strider such a superior action game. Basically, what dire51 said As for Strider 2... Well, Shion, your reasons for liking it are my reasons for disliking it and vice versa for Osman. To me Strider 2 was "Hey, let's make Strider again but, you know, let's not get too crazy," so it just feels boring to me-- very samey, and felt clunkier (not to mention looked chunkier) to me. Osman is absolutely wild and shares that same crazy feeling as Strider, something only the original planner could replicate. And they may be some cool, well-meaning dudes, but... Backbone Entertainment? More like Barebones Entertainment!........ *crickets chirp* |
|
|
|
Post by ahnslaught on Aug 19, 2009 15:02:10 GMT -5
I love Strider as much as anyone (hell, it's the reason I got a Genesis like a lot of people, I bet), but I have to wonder if a 3d Strider would be anything more than a sci-fi Ninja Gaiden clone, with either a bit more linear or open world elements as desired. Kinda generic, and I'd rather not usher in Strider now with such a bland game.
But would a side scroller remaking the first/second/NES games or an original one altogether be better? And if so, as a full priced disc release? Full priced side scrollers aren't that common these days, and Shadow Complex sets a bar now that even "full fledged" games could/should be a download game.
I personally wouldn't mind a modern 3d remake of Strider 2 or a HD sprite version of Strider, but then you have to wonder how big the audience for such a linear game is nowadays at a $15 pricepoint. And, assuming they can't come up with a good idea for a full budget game, any remake of Strider's not going to lead to anything (unlike Bionic Commando), so there really is little point in resurrecting that name.
|
|
|
|
Post by Justinzero on Aug 19, 2009 15:42:39 GMT -5
Shhh! Don't give them any ideas. Street Fighter II HD Remix was was already bad enough as it is. What's wrong with SFIIHDR? I would love to see another strider hit ether PSN/WW/XBLA or PSP. Kimimi and I were talking about how Legend of Kage 2 kind of reminded us of Strider, and I think with a bit of polish the game could be made. Strider 2 was awesome, but it could have used a bit more time in the shop. I loved the pacing, boss fights, and level design. If the game was a bit longer, harder, and had some really cool Ninja Gaiden NES style cutscenes, it would totally be worth picking up. |
|
|
|
Post by thethird on Aug 19, 2009 17:44:08 GMT -5
Aye, I've noticed. A sad state of affairs, that. In fact, it reminds me of an article from an old issue of Digital Press, "Your Powers Are Weak, Old Man." I'll quote some of the best bits here: Something tells me that whoever wrote that article hasn't spent time playing some of the harder games of recent generations. Devil May Cry? Ninja Gaiden? Viewtiful Joe? Hell, even on easy games, they give you harder difficulties. I can vaguely see where some of his rage is coming from, but considering how most popular games nowadays are focused on competitive multiplayer I don't see the huge deal when the tacked on single-player is easy. Especially with something like Halo, where given the extra difficulties and the skulls you can make the game damn tough. Try telling me that the Megaman Zero games aren't difficult. The original MM games are easier, for cripes sake! The quotes you posted are full of "grumpy old man" hilarity to me, especially the last one (and I'm having trouble distinguishing if that was intentional, honestly). If beating Devil May Cry 3 on Hard (or Normal) doesn't qualify you for at least mild bragging rights, then, hell, I don't know what is. Anyways, getting away from my poorly constructed rant, I'd love to see another Strider game, but not as a Metroid style game. I love the Castlevanias in that style, but not for Strider-I'd like it to remain a straight-up 2D action game. Strider 1 was pretty fun, but Strider 2 was great in my opinion and I'd rather have a sequel in the vein of that then a HD remake on the original. |
|
|
|
Post by Warchief Onyx on Aug 19, 2009 17:52:43 GMT -5
Aye, I've noticed. A sad state of affairs, that. In fact, it reminds me of an article from an old issue of Digital Press, "Your Powers Are Weak, Old Man." I'll quote some of the best bits here: Something tells me that whoever wrote that article hasn't spent time playing some of the harder games of recent generations. Devil May Cry? Ninja Gaiden? Viewtiful Joe? Hell, even on easy games, they give you harder difficulties. I can vaguely see where some of his rage is coming from, but considering how most popular games nowadays are focused on competitive multiplayer I don't see the huge deal when the tacked on single-player is easy. Especially with something like Halo, where given the extra difficulties and the skulls you can make the game damn tough. Try telling me that the Megaman Zero games aren't difficult. The original MM games are easier, for cripes sake! The quotes you posted are full of "grumpy old man" hilarity to me, especially the last one (and I'm having trouble distinguishing if that was intentional, honestly). If beating Devil May Cry 3 on Hard (or Normal) doesn't qualify you for at least mild bragging rights, then, hell, I don't know what is. I completely agree with that. That rant reeked of curmudgeonly elitism I'd expect to hear from an old man wanting to get those damn kids off his lawn before he gets the hose. I also very much disagree with the idea that the Post-SotN Castlevanias take no skill. SotN itself was a cakewalk, but Circle of the Moon and Order of Ecclesia are especially difficult. Unless you want to spend many hours doing so (in which case, the only person you have to blame for lack of difficulty is yourself), leveling up in these two games only means you'll die in 7 hits instead of 6. The boss fights in these two games especially require pattern recognition and genuine skill to beat. Hell, I think many of OoE's and CotM's bosses are harder than MOST (not all) of the boss fights in the old school 'Vanias. |
|
|
|
Post by megatronbison on Aug 19, 2009 18:16:50 GMT -5
I'd give you CotM being tough- man it was nasty in places but asides from the opening areas I found Ecclesia to be a little too easy. Certainly- in comparison to something like Chronicles, shit is it tough.
|
|
.jpg)
