How accurate are Chinese symbols in games?

[Sketcz-1000]

Wow, I've never seen Heroes, but that's pretty bad. Kind of insulting actually (maybe?).

Well, I guess it doesn't really matter. But it is fun. And it's a lazy Sunday, so I took the time to screencap the various DE3 signs. Some repeat, some aren't as clear as I could have made them, and I get bored towards the end so didn't bother with a few.

Taken from this video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO5CnVvY_wE

The file names represent the time on the video.

















老果奴水果店 - Old Fruit Slave Fruit Store

[Yuan]

Depends on the game/situation. Chinese generally doesn't look very cool to ppl who can read when found in games (except maybe Chinese kingdom war games), but to Japanese and sometimes occidental people it can look very interesting and aesthetic.

Japanese people are very influenced by the Chinese language, and, despite being quite different, contrary to popular belief, Chinese IS similar to Japanese. It is radically different when you start learning it, but the more in-depth you get (such as 「四文字熟語」）, the more "Chinified" Japanese actually results.

As for the example above, 「城」, it actually means EXACTLY the same in both languages, which is kinda like "brick wall" or "surrounding wall".

However, depending on context and usage, you can interpret the "word" differently on BOTH languages.

Think about it like the word "desktop". You'll probably only find it means something like the "top of a desk". In 50 years, it may change in American English to something like "computing system that is physically large and usually sits atop a table", or "virtual storage space visible in the background of computer operating systems", to the point that the "original" meaning is eclipsed by the more used one, but the original still exists.

In the case of the character you guys used as an example, it can perfectly mean "castle" in Chinese. However, since cities were surrounded by the "castle walls", it is common to use its "city" meaning.

In the case of Japan, 城　（しろ）, which are traditional Japanese-style castles (like Ryu's stage), as far as I know cities where NEVER contained inside the castle walls, alas they never had a "walled city" concept.

"We" (maybe not me, but in general) also have a very different concept of what a "castle" is, as we tend to imagine a medieval castle first, since that is the analog concept we're trying to relate with the term, and it is also radically different, if you think about it.

To truly learn 「漢字」, (the writing of the Han people) or just 「字」, (words/letters) as we call them in Chinese, you need to try to learn the language as a child, without any "preconceived" ideas, and study them for many years, just like someone would need to study English for a long time before they can understand something which transcends it's "dictionary meaning" such as "you're so gonna screw up", or something I just watch in "Cloudy with a chance of meatballs, "...like I LIKE, like you".

[Ganelon]

Jan 15, 2011 18:10:04 GMT -5 Joseph Joestar said:

However, I remember asking her about the spoken Mandarin in Strider (after he beats Tong-Pu), and she said it made sense but didn't sound like a native speaker.

Actually, Tong Pu speaks proper Mandarin with no noticeable accent.

Anyway, all the stores in Deus Ex 3 have proper Chinese store names. There are no obvious errors. My guess is they have an employee with a Chinese background.

[Yuan]

Yup, in Strider the Mandarin sounds like from the North. And it is a native Chinese-speaker.

Ganelon, do you speak Chinese ???

[Deleted]

Since the subject of Chinese words has been brought up, perhaps you could answer a question that's been on my mind for a while, Yuan. This might sound really dumb, but it's in regard to your name. Your avatar makes it seem that you're a guy. I have a friend who's wife is also named Yuan. The Chinese dollar is also called the yuan. Is this a case of a bunch of homographs, or do the native Chinese spellings make them appear distinct from one another?

[Ganelon]

All of the above.

1. There are 4 pronunciations for every pinyin. Most words use the yuan2 pronunciation (including the currency and common surname).
2. Even amongst the same pronunciations, there are multiple words that are normally understood by context of the phrase (and which lead to plenty of puns used in jokes).
3. And finally, there are homographs where the same word can have multiple meanings.

Any yeah, Yuan, my Chinese isn't the best but I can communicate orally and read at an elementary level.

[Yuan]

To answer your question, my real name is

姜 元璽 (Chiang (surname) Yuan-Hsi (name), but most non-Chinese speakers know me as "Yuan", (or 元). Some of my Taiwanese/Chinese friend also call me just "Yuan2".

Coincidentally, this "Yuan2" 「元」　is my name, the currency, and it is possible that it is also the name of your friend's wife. I had a friend who was a girl, and she was also "Yuan", the same character, so it can be used for names of both sexes or in part of them.

Something really funny is that I have a "pen name" (nickname) with Japanese friends, because when they see my name some of them read it as "Hajime", and, though I always present myself officially as "Kyou Genji", most ppl stick to "Hajime".

There is a Street Fighter character named "Gen", which is also the same Chinese ideogram. And there was a movie starring Jet Li about a Chinese hero named Huo Yuan-Jia, known as "Fearless", and that Yuan is also the same character.

There are actually 5 possible "tones" for each "syllable". In the case of "Yuan2", 「元」 is not the only character which is pronounced that way.

And Holy Cow, Ganelon, why in the world do you speak Chinese? I presume you also speak Japanese? PLEASE tell me you have at least some Asian blood or something.

[Sketcz-1000]

Wow, this thread delivers on so many fascinating levels. Thanks for language lessons, gentlemen, most interesting.

Jan 16, 2011 19:11:22 GMT -5 Ganelon said:

Anyway, all the stores in Deus Ex 3 have proper Chinese store names. There are no obvious errors. My guess is they have an employee with a Chinese background.

Hmm... That's actually quite re-assuring. People are scrutinising DE3 and asking if it can ever hope to live up to everyone's expectations, or even the legacy of the first one, so the fact there aren't too many errors with the store signs implies... Some kind of quality control/effort? Not that I'm convinced they can do non-linearity, but still.

[derboo]

Jan 16, 2011 19:11:22 GMT -5 Ganelon said:

Anyway, all the stores in Deus Ex 3 have proper Chinese store names. There are no obvious errors. My guess is they have an employee with a Chinese background.

Could you explain the reaction 老果奴水果店 gets on Chinese message boards, then?

[Deleted]

Jan 16, 2011 19:21:34 GMT -5 Yuan said:

Yup, in Strider the Mandarin sounds like from the North. And it is a native Chinese-speaker.

Ganelon, do you speak Chinese ???

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to mislead. Either I remembered what she said wrong or she's an underachiever, lol (she is a self-proclaimed banana).

If anything, I was kinda expecting something along the lines of it being gramatically correct but "off"...kind of like the English in the between-level chat in Forgotten Worlds. There's other Engrish examples where things are correct grammatically but don't really sound like "real" English because it's not normal, colloquial speech. I'd be interested to hear examples of things like this but with other languages.

[Yuan]

In that sense you are right. First of all, everyone in Strider speaks in their own language (no wonder there is no world peace, they will NEVER understand each other!!).

The Chinese in Strider was something like "You fool, can't you see this world is ours?" But it is written quite literal an hilariously, that is completely true, and way off. First time I heard it I think I got goosebumps and all. But it is pronounced correctly.

*By the way, BANANA means an asian that grew up/was born in the US or away from the orient. Yellow outside, white insidie.

** 「老果奴水果店」 OMG who wrote this? How in heavens do you ppl write in Chinese? I have friends who speak Mandarin who can't

[Deleted]

I thought asians took great offense at being referred to as "orientals"? Very interesting about the "banana" thing, though. Never heard that one.

[Yuan]

Wow, I might be telling too much here, but anyway...

Yeah, Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, Mainland China ppl, etc. don't like to be confused with one another, but some of them specially don't wanna be confused with ppl from Thailand, Philippines, Singapore, or even India, etc., so some ppl don't like to be called that way.

I've met Indian ppl who say that they feel only Southeast Asians call themselves Asian, or oriental, but that India is also in the Orient.

Kinda like if you're North American but you don't wanna be confused with Canadian, or even "worse", Mexican, or other Central or South American ppl, and those feel excluded in the way that they are also "American", but the term is much more related to the US.

[Yuan]

「老果奴水果店」

Let's unravel the mystery!!

水果店 ----> water pulp infrastructure = fruitstore PASS TEST

老果奴 ----> old pulp slave = someone who loves fruit PASS TEST

老果奴水果店 ----> old pulp slave water pulp infrastructure to sell

= Fruit Addict's Fruit Joint ----> PASS TEST

So, nothing about old fruits slaving anyone, or selling them back in fruit form.

It is a possible name for a fruit store, and not even too far-fetched at that.

EDIT: These store names look awfully Taiwanese, maybe also valid in Hong Kong? My guess is that it may not sound too well in certain parts of Mainland China and they might complain because of it.

For instance, in Taiwan it is common to call cell phones 手機 (hand machine), but I'm not sure in other Mandarin-speaking places, it could very well mean nothing or something else.

One funny example is 土豆, which is how we call peanuts in Taiwan (earth seeds), but in Mainland China this is literally potato. Once there was this Chinese person who we had a 20 minute long argument with, about how "peanuts" the size of tangerines didn't exist, and he alleged that the microscopic ones we talked about were made up by us. True story.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2011 13:17:19 GMT -5 Yuan said:

In that sense you are right. First of all, everyone in Strider speaks in their own language (no wonder there is no world peace, they will NEVER understand each other!!).

The Chinese in Strider was something like "You fool, can't you see this world is ours?" But it is written quite literal an hilariously, that is completely true, and way off. First time I heard it I think I got goosebumps and all. But it is pronounced correctly.

*By the way, BANANA means an asian that grew up/was born in the US or away from the orient. Yellow outside, white insidie.

** 「老果奴水果店」 OMG who wrote this? How in heavens do you ppl write in Chinese? I have friends who speak Mandarin who can't

By the way, thanks for posting this info; this is very cool.

Also, hope I didn't offend with the banana remark - she was born overseas (Taichung) but was brought over by her parents as a baby, and grew up in Arkansas. She's pretty "white" acting, which causes her to bump heads with her mom as a result. That and about a billion other things. Anyway, we joke about the banana thing because of lines in the Hong Kong movie "Eagle Shooting Heroes" about 'Bich, it is banana of Tiawan' (sic).

Also, her mom HATES people from Japan about as much as she hates white people (remnants of the occupation I'd imagine). She also hates people from the mainland as well, but puts up a false face because of the community where they live. Her dad's pretty cool though.

Whoops, not trying to make this confession or whatever, heh.