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Post by megatronbison on May 9, 2011 17:00:16 GMT -5
I love the Cork accent! It's cute as a button on girls. Uh yeah, I'll stop derailing here  |
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Post by Warchief Onyx on May 9, 2011 17:07:34 GMT -5
There were some truly hilarious "American" accents from the voice actors in Heavy Rain. I forget what part of Ireland he's from (apparently born in Dublin), but I really like Sheamus' accent in the WWE. And yes he's actually from Ireland.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 17:10:21 GMT -5
There were some truly hilarious "American" accents from the voice actors in Heavy Rain. Agent Nawman Jayden, FBI. |
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Post by vetus on May 9, 2011 17:10:24 GMT -5
It's common knowledge that the accent or dialect differs so much from place to place on a certain country that it sounds like they're talking a whole different language. And, of course, american people don't sound like cartoons in real life and japanese people don't sound like anime in real life. So, "no uguu for you". Speaking for "american" accent one of the most hilarious one I have heard was on House of the Dead: Best black people gansta stereotype mockery ever. ;D |
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Post by kog3100edw on May 9, 2011 18:13:34 GMT -5
I think over-sensitivity to perceived 'racism', 'sexism' or whatever -ism can be about as troublesome. If you belong to a group that has a history of persecution you still need to check your motives and the context of the slight before making a case out of it.
There are a tons of examples of racial stereotyping in Japanese games. No question. As others have pointed out, is it literal 'racism'? Or is it ignorance. It is easy to say in this internet age we SHOULD all be race/gender/orientation-informed... but we still aren't. OR we often think something will be taken as a joke or a parody and maybe it doesn't get taken in that spirit. It can be a fine line.
I am rather well-known amongst my IRL friends for having a sense of humor that knows no boundaries... I make sexist jokes at women, I make racial jokes at members of ethnic groups, I poke fun at gay men to their faces. BUT. This is all with people who I have already established that I don't actually hold true the beliefs that would make such jokes literally venomous.
Here's an example: Back when I worked at GW, amongst the black staff members, a pretty good friend of mine had painted his Imperial Guard army for WH40K with all different shades of flesh including 'African-American' troopers. The first time I saw his army on a table I looked at it carefully, and without missing a beat stood up and said, 'Oh, Dude. Don't you know there won't be any black people in the 41st Millenium'.
The implications of that joke run all the way up to ethnic cleansing. But this guy KNEW I didn't really mean anything like that, for real and for true, because I'd already established my character with him. Yeah, you can't just spring shit like that on everyone without getting to know them, but I really just wish people would take some of the cultural/occupational context into consideration before getting overly bent about an -ism or an -obia. Standup comics pretty much make a living from people who give them this exact same benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 18:23:45 GMT -5
I think over-sensitivity to perceived 'racism', 'sexism' or whatever -ism can be about as troublesome. If you belong to a group that has a history of persecution you still need to check your motives and the context of the slight before making a case out of it. There are a tons of examples of racial stereotyping in Japanese games. No question. As others have pointed out, is it literal 'racism'? Or is it ignorance. It is easy to say in this internet age we SHOULD all be race/gender/orientation-informed... but we still aren't. OR we often think something will be taken as a joke or a parody and maybe it doesn't get taken in that spirit. It can be a fine line. I am rather well-known amongst my IRL friends for having a sense of humor that knows no boundaries... I make sexist jokes at women, I make racial jokes at members of ethnic groups, I poke fun at gay men to their faces. BUT. This is all with people who I have already established that I don't actually hold true the beliefs that would make such jokes literally venomous. Here's an example: Back when I worked at GW, amongst the black staff members, a pretty good friend of mine had painted his Imperial Guard army for WH40K with all different shades of flesh including 'African-American' troopers. The first time I saw his army on a table I looked at it carefully, and without missing a beat stood up and said, 'Oh, Dude. Don't you know there won't be any black people in the 41st Millenium'. The implications of that joke run all the way up to ethnic cleansing. But this guy KNEW I didn't really mean anything like that, for real and for true, because I'd already established my character with him. Yeah, you can't just spring shit like that on everyone without getting to know them, but I really just wish people would take some of the cultural/occupational context into consideration before getting overly bent about an -ism or an -obia. Standup comics pretty much make a living from people who give them this exact same benefit of the doubt. Ahh, a man after my own heart. My wife and I make jokes like that all the time, and think stuff like "where da hood at" on 4chan is hilarious...ONLY because it's so absurd that there's no way to take it seriously. Unfortunately, most people are either too scared or too sensitive of racial issues to be able to know when someone's being sarcastic or ironic about that sort of thing, but I guess that's also half of the appeal. |
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Post by kog3100edw on May 9, 2011 18:33:22 GMT -5
I would never deny these things exist... but I'm like Chris Rock in that I think we should all be able to talk about these things... even joke about them without getting all bent.
As an American white male I don't suffer under most of the slings and arrows of any -ism. I DO belong to a somewhat maligned subculture. But I can take the barbs because I believe in taking as good as I give.
Establish context or viewpoint. I think it is important. It is intent. I think most game stereotypes or insensitivities stem from personalities who truly didn't mean any harm.
I still think it'd be fine for someone to point out the offense... doing something out of ignorance or being misguided ain't right. But going all Jesse Jackson on 'em can set 'em back.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 18:45:42 GMT -5
I still think it'd be fine for someone to point out the offense... doing something out of ignorance or being misguided ain't right. But going all Jesse Jackson on 'em can set 'em back. Now you have me thinking about that NES Presidential Election videogame that was only released in Japan. One of the options was for Jesse Jackson. "Run, Jesse. Run, Jesse." God, I miss the 80s. |
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Post by munchy on May 9, 2011 19:16:42 GMT -5
The game itself might not be racist, but I found many people's reaction to GTA: San Andreas to be racist. I can't count how many people told me they didn't want to play that game, simply because you play as a black guy. It was really sickening, to be honest. The little bit I played of this with cheats was AWESOME. The player guy was really fat, only had tighty-whiteys on, and we gave him a jetpack and a rocket launcher, effectively making him a super villain whose goal was to make freeway travel miserable. I didn't buy San Andreas or any others because outside of dicking around with cheats the GTA games don't appeal to me. (This is especially why I hate 4. It's way too realistic and boring compared to the others.) Oh, uh, someone mentioned T. Hawk, and I remembered reading Tomahawk Man in MM6 was also supposed to be named Geronimo Man originally. |
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Post by vetus on May 9, 2011 19:29:13 GMT -5
My wife and I make jokes like that all the time, and think stuff like "where da hood at" on 4chan is hilarious...ONLY because it's so absurd that there's no way to take it seriously. Unfortunately, most people are either too scared or too sensitive of racial issues to be able to know when someone's being sarcastic or ironic about that sort of thing, but I guess that's also half of the appeal. Just ask anyone who takes the jokes of South Park or Borat seriously to prove JasonX's point. ;D Speaking for 4chan, I met a guy who said that he hates 4chan just because they make fun of furries (note this guy is a so-called "furry"). I also like anthros (I hate to call them furries) but one of my favourite kind of threads on /b/ is the "furries vs anti-furries flame war" where I like to troll both sides. |
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Post by Warchief Onyx on May 9, 2011 22:56:25 GMT -5
I loved San Andreas personally. My favorite game in the series. I think my favorite thing about it is that CJ ultimately has his heart in the right place. He just gets dragged back into this culture of violence out of family loyalty. It's a nice change of pace from the blank slate character (first 3 games), lovable violent psychopath (Tommy Vercetti), and the unlikable sociopath (Niko Bellic).
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Post by akumajobelmont on May 9, 2011 22:57:35 GMT -5
There's also the stereotyping of Irish people in games which is just as bad as hollywood. First of all nobody talks like they do in Darby O'Gill yet most actors don't even bother trying to do a real accent. Nobody says 'begorrah' or 'top o' the morning to you'.The only one in a game that actually sounded authentic was Atlas in Bioshock which was very close to a Dublin accent. Also we aren't all raging alco's. I think Broken Sword with the section in Ireland was by far the worst of the lot, taking place mostly in a pub with americans doing some horrendous accents. GTA4 was similarly awful. Begorrah it was terrible I'm telling you it was. The first person to mention Loco Roco I'm going to reach into my monitor and slap them. Top o' the morning to you. Similar thing here. Because I'm aussie, I apparently rode kangaroos to school in my youth, have a BBQ's for every meal, have beer running through my veins instead of blood, worship the Crocodile Hunter, have my back yard is covered in Red Dust, and must have the worst game censorship in the world because my government is evil. Well, the last part rings partially true (all governments are evil), but still. I have encountered every one of these in some form or another. People are a stupid invention. |
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Post by thethird on May 9, 2011 23:38:52 GMT -5
Don't forget, your dad has to box the Christmas Kangaroo for your gifts!
I'm not afraid to admit that I thought that SNL skit was hilarious.
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Post by susanismyalias on May 9, 2011 23:50:01 GMT -5
white dots blowin up black ships... metaphor for our times. ikaruga is truly a magnum opus frothing demand etc |
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Post by kog3100edw on May 10, 2011 12:30:00 GMT -5
Bear in mind that applying a stereotype to an individual is incorrect, but stereotypes (or ethnic/lifestyle assumptions) exist for a reason.
Not to piss anyone off, but most of the black folks I've known including a current co-worker really DO prefer fried chicken to almost any other food. I've worked in predominantly black environments where it was a day-long conversation on what the best time, fat, and heat application got them the best fried chicken. Almost every Aussie male I've known DID love beer, though not Foster's... more than one making a point that typical American lager was 'mule piss'. How mule piss got to be a common way of describing weak beer down under I'll leave Australians to explain. I have a good friend who is gay. And he along with almost all of the gay male friends I've seen him associate with is the very image of the limp-wristed caricature. Gays flipped out over the way Jack portrayed them on Will & Grace or how Carson was so over-the-top on Queer Eye. BUT almost every man I've met that is out and proud is also pretty goshdamn close to flaming. OF COURSE people are not JUST their stereotype, but so many contain essential elements. These things weren't invented out of nothing.
People love to put things in a box... or put a label to them. We do this so we can somehow get a leg up on understanding. We're more comfortable if we think we've got someone or something figured out. That's what 'first impression' is all about. It would be nice if we didn't do this sort of jumping to conclusions before finding the individual who lies behind or outside the stereotype. I'd guess that's what REALLY being sensitive is. Not letting assumptions about a person (whether imagined, media-fed or even gained through experience) cloud how we interact with them.
In the case of Japanese games, whatever you think is out on the internet in terms of racially-sensitive information, most Japanese have little to no real-life experience of non-Japanese ethnicities and so have never 'set aside' stereotyping to experience an individual. In some ways they're like martians thinking they're seeing an accurate human experience from reality tv. If Kar-Blagatron, Captain of the Martian Navy greeted you like you were a regular on Jersey Shore you might be pretty fucking offended. But you'd be incorrect to do so.
We've gotten too sensitive. Sometimes over nothing. Or over something that with a little correct information the offender could be sorted. I'm especially mystified by people who get literally offended over something that targets a DIFFERENT group from themselves!
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