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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Nov 7, 2011 9:14:22 GMT -5
My favourite part was sneaking into the base at the start - the set-up of find a safe spot, radio your guy, he gets captures, and that leaves the door open, seems pretty high-end for a NES game from 1990 (conceptually at least).
As an aside: If you could ask the dev team any questions about this, what would they be? (and no, I haven't found them - yet, anyway)
Also, has anyone else found the codes glitching on them? I lost out on the entire end train section because of that at one point.
Random trivia: romhacking has revealed that there is a gasmask item, but you can't actually acquire it, not that the gassed areas are difficult to navigate through.
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Post by vnisanian2001 on Nov 7, 2011 14:52:36 GMT -5
An interesting fact about this game's dev. team:
Some of them also worked on Castlevania III.
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Post by Snarboo on Nov 7, 2011 19:15:14 GMT -5
So I'm currently in the last stretch of the game, and *SPOILERS*the final base is probably about as large as all the previous areas combined. It's absolutely MASSIVE, and you can't skip a single part of it. It starts off in a series of modern looking buildings which you travel between by tram cars. The roofs of these buildings are guarded by laser tripwires that you need night vision goggles to see. The timing on the beams is absolutely brutal. You HAVE to move as soon as they shut off or you trip the alarm.
As for the trams, you ride on them in a sidescrolling sequence. If you get caught on the tram, the game spams a shitload of jetpack troopers that fly around shooting and ramming into you. It's extremely annoying, but you can easily avoid detection by staying on the right side of the tram. After several such tedious tram rides between the buildings, you finally collect the sixth keycard and enter the final gauntlet.
Suddenly, you enter an area that wouldn't feel out of place in Castlevania or Wolfenstein. There are even SS looking guards running around that you have to avoid! It's really bizarre, but I'd expect nothing less from a Metal Gear game. I finally decided to take a break after getting to an area with 3 separate sidescrolling sequences, all of which you have to slog through. I got past a few of them to see where they lead, and the next few areas seem like a doozy. You no longer have to contend with just normal foot soldiers if you trigger the alarm, but also kamikazes and grenade throwing assholes!*SPOILERS*
I have to agree with Sotenga and say that this game is fairly brutal. It lulls you into a false sense of security after the starting jungle, then you hit a massive difficulty spike after the third or so area. It's not completely unmanageable, but it can be some righteous bullshit at times.
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Post by xerxes on Nov 7, 2011 21:26:55 GMT -5
As an aside: If you could ask the dev team any questions about this, what would they be? (and no, I haven't found them - yet, anyway) As Kurt pointed out on the blog a few years ago, Revenge has a lot more in common with the MSX Metal Gear than its NES port. I'd ask whether they even played the NES version, or knew anyone who worked on it (it may have been outsourced). I also want to know why Japan didn't get this game. Here's some pro-tips for those who may have started late: 1. SIDE SCROLLING STAGES -- Just stock up on ration cans before trying to complete one. If you get spotted, don't bother trying to kill your way out. Just take out your knife and run, stab, heal... run stab, heal... You end up taking less damage than trying to stand and fight. 2. DEAD ENDS ARE GOOD -- If you get spotted, you WANT to be trapped. The enemies will always enter a room or a corridor on the same tile, so you can just wait and stab. 3. TRAIN BOSS -- A pit opens up in front of him, even after the fight starts. You can only walk across the topmost part of the room. IF You're all the way in back, you have a chance at avoiding his shots. Wait until his claymore explodes, move a few steps up or down so it will miss you, shoot a remote missile at him. Easy! Just be careful that you don't fire missiles at the wrong time, or you'll be frozen while controlling the missile.
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Nov 8, 2011 3:44:09 GMT -5
(it may have been outsourced) Not according to my interview with the in-house team.
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Post by xerxes on Nov 8, 2011 12:15:51 GMT -5
During my constant retrying I missed a prisoner (or two) and never got the rank up. Didn't even know ranks existed and was driven to the verge of insanity trying to beat the first boss with neither health, rations or ammo enough. Eventually I turned to youtube to find out, which I guess makes me the suckiest player in this thread Sorry I missed this. Don't give up! There's two things to remember. First, almost every boss is near a room with a solitary dude who you can repeatedly ambush for ration cans and ammo. Just remember to use your fists. Second, you'll rank up faster if you interrogate all the enemy officers with the truth gas. Including the ass on the train who STILL doesn't know anything when you gas him. I skipped most of these, then discovered just yesterday that I shouldn't have...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2011 12:42:16 GMT -5
An interesting fact about this game's dev. team: Some of them also worked on Castlevania III. ...
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Post by kyouki on Nov 8, 2011 20:57:26 GMT -5
You guys have totally hyped me to play this. I actually bought this back when it was released. Though I was never able to finish Snake's Revenge, I remember thinking it compared favorably to MG. I'd say the BS factor is pretty standard for the era. Most of it comes down to learning how the game wants you to play it and memorization, which anyone can do, and if you make maps, it trivializes the game. The purpose of this project is for everyone to join in and share the experience, so don't be shy! I'm universally terrible at 8-bit games, too. I can't tell you how many times I died in the starting jungle, but that's part of the fun of adhering to the rules of old school gaming. Wise words. Game design has changed (not necessarily better or worse) since the days when games like Snake's Revenge and Legacy of the Wizard were released. You need to play these with that mindset, of having to actually learn how to play a game before you can really enjoy it and make progress. If you do so, a lot of these games are still extremely enjoyable even today.
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Post by xerxes on Nov 8, 2011 22:11:29 GMT -5
Another pro tip for the tank boss: turbo controllers will really, REALLY help. Even if you lay a bunch of mines in the same spot, the tank takes damage from all of em. Just remember that the tank moves even when it's not on the screen. If you follow it back up the bridge, it may be about three millimeters away from you!
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Post by Snarboo on Nov 9, 2011 0:30:23 GMT -5
I finally beat Snake's Revenge! This game has one of the most satisfying finales I've seen in a long time. I know that sounds funny given the excess and bombast of today's games, but the way everything comes together during the final battles is really amazing. Spoilers below:
*SPOILERS* I'm not sure why this game is called Snake's Revenge. If anything, it's Big Boss that gets his revenge on you, especially in the final castle. Seriously, there are two rooms that you need to light up with the flare gun that are absolutely filled to the brim with hidden pitfall traps. You don't know where they are until you blunder into one and fall to your death. That made trudging through that area a nightmare. This is on top of new, awful enemies you fight if the alarm goes off, dickish enemy placement, and kamikaze hostages. Also did I mention that this segment is REALLY long? It's literally as large as all the previous segments combined!
Like most Metal Gear games, it's not the battle against Metal Gear that steals the show, but rather the fight with the true villain. In this case, it's a cyborg Big Boss. He starts off by hosing you down with machine gun fire, but you can easily dispatch him by hiding behind a pillar and using guided missiles on him. After he takes enough damage, he transform into an even bigger cyborg. There's a special trick to this fight that I won't spoil, but suffice to say that this battle is really epic. The song that plays during the fight is so awesome, too! It really gets your blood pumping.
The fight against Metal Gear 2 is somewhat disappointing in comparison. It just sits there waiting for you to hit it with guided missiles, although it can be tricky given the setup. The ending itself is also disappointing: a simple text crawl congratulating you for destroying Metal Gear 2. Almost none of the numerous plot holes are resolved, but at this point I'm just happy that I can put this puppy to bed.*SPOILERS*
I'd say Snake's Revenge is a must play for any Metal Gear fan out there, or even those who are simply curious about the series' lineage. It can be a frustrating game to play at times, and the sidescrolling segments are seriously broken, but it's definitely worth the time I put into it.
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Nov 9, 2011 3:19:24 GMT -5
To be specific, the Snake's Revenge team shared at least three staff members with Castlevania III: programmers H. Akamatsu and Y(asuo) Okuda, as well as graphic designer Takeshi Fujimoto. I don't know much about Akamatsu (there's an "H. Akamatsu" credited in Surprise Attack and nothing else), but Fujimoto and Okuda did quite a few other games for Konami. Okuda, was involved in both TMNT games for the SNES, the first SNES Goemon and the Winning Eleven series. www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,100575/ Fujimoto was a sprite designer in many SNES games by Konami, including the Parodius Da! port and Pop'n TwinBee. www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,89893/ www13.atwiki.jp/game_staff/?cmd=word&word=SNAKE%27S%20REVENGE&type=normal&page=%E8%97%A4%E6%9C%AC%E6%AD%A6%E5%8F%B2K. Yamashita (MobyGames says Kouki, but I'm not certain if it's the same guy), another programmer in Snake's Revenge, worked on the NES versions of Contra and TMNT II and was the director of the SNES' Dracula X. T. Ogura might be Takayuki Ogura, who is credited in many Konami soundtracks as a production manager. (it may have been outsourced) Not according to my interview with the in-house team. Really? Who did you manage to track down? Anyway, are you still accepting questions for your interview?
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Nov 9, 2011 3:39:17 GMT -5
Really? Who did you manage to track down? Anyway, are you still accepting questions for your interview? One of the team who ported the NES game. Once the article is out I'll put scans up everywhere. It was just a few emails, not a full blown interview, since he didn't feel like discussing it.
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Post by Ryu the Grappler on Nov 9, 2011 12:29:06 GMT -5
Who is it? There's only four people credited in that game, but Masahiro Ueno and Kazuki Muraoka (the composer, who funnily enough also did some of the music in the later MGS games) are the only ones with credits in other games.
Anyway, I'm pretty much one of the biggest Snake's Revenge fan, if not the biggest. It's easily the best top-view action game for the NES, although I no longer bother to defend the game's quality as much as I did in the past. If you really can't appreciate the game, you're probably some pseudo-intellectual Kojimadork who probably only play games for their cut-scenes anyway or an industry tool who just parrots what he hears from other people.
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Post by ReyVGM on Nov 9, 2011 13:28:42 GMT -5
I actually liked Snake's Revenge more than Metal Gear (NES). SR felt more dynamic and had more action.
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Post by xerxes on Nov 9, 2011 21:24:24 GMT -5
I actually liked Snake's Revenge more than Metal Gear (NES). SR felt more dynamic and had more action. Yeah, I'm surprised by the amount of love it's getting. It seems like most people who bother to play it have something good to say. I seriously doubt all (or even most) games in the ol' 9X randomizer will be this playable. What also surprises me is how much people (myself included) have to SAY about playing the game. Not just in this thread, but in the IRC channel too. We've been talking about this forgotten stepchild of a game for two weeks now... Anyway, I'm halfway through the final castle. I stopped drawing maps a few days ago and am now regretting that...
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