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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Sept 25, 2009 14:45:31 GMT -5
Hi all I'm embarrassed to start this topic, but I'm stuck on the original XZR on the PC88 (and sorta the MSX one too). And after telling Kurt I'd work through them for a possible article, the only alternative is to either cut the description of the first game short and state that the language barrier will be a problem, or try to find a way through and give pointers to readers/players. I'd rather the latter, since it's rather a fun game, very similar to its sequel on the PCE/MD. I reached the 2nd map area (in the first town speak to the guy in the Mosque, the woman at the northern building, and the woman selling a recorder and Jew's harp in lower right corner, to trigger the Rumi dialogue), and after the river area and cavern I moved on to the prison (PC88: speak to everyone, then in the first town give the guy in the hut near the western exit $50 and it should, in theory, open the prison). For those stuck, the entrance to it is hidden near the back wall. In the prison I beat the 2 bosses at the top level, and found the old guy in the lower level, but have no idea how to proceed. There's still a locked door in the 2nd area cavern, and the prison's lowest level. The game tells me I need a key, but I don't know where to find these. Annoyingly, in the MSX version, the prison bosses drop chests with keys in them, but not so here. The PC88 and MSX versions are really weird, and very different. Almost verging on YsIV SFC/PCE levels of difference. But if anyone has any experience with the PC88 version, I'd really appreciate it. I'm getting the feeling that the original XZR might by trying to pull a Tower of Druaga on the player. This website has screens of the prison level which I managed to reach: www.amusement-center.com/project/egg/omoide/index.php?itemid=585 On a side note, I've finished XZR2 and Exile: Wicked Phenomenon, and they're pretty cool (WP's US localization is damned tough though). By all means discuss the series' merits here. They're some great games, and the religious overtones coupled with the encouragement to take drugs, makes them rather interesting. |
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Post by Discoalucard on Sept 25, 2009 16:52:20 GMT -5
I tried to google around to find a Japanese FAQ website, which have helped me in the past on various Falcom stuff, but no luck with this one. Sorry.
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Post by kobushi on Sept 25, 2009 18:33:28 GMT -5
This is just for the MSX2 version, but... According to this site (scroll down to the 7th and 8th images), there's a suspicious-looking key (あやしげなカギ) found at Suhrawardi's (スフラワルディ) grave. Does that help? |
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Sept 26, 2009 4:26:35 GMT -5
Wonderful, that looks like just the ticket. I shall try it a bit later. Thank you very much!
Though Goolge translating that page implies that it's possible to perform actions which prevent you from progressing.
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Post by kobushi on Sept 26, 2009 7:21:08 GMT -5
The machine translation must be misleading, because it doesn't say that. You're safe  However, it does say that you need to do all your shopping before you rescue Rumi, because once you do you're instantly transported to the next area. |
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Sept 26, 2009 12:47:27 GMT -5
Thanks, the guide is helping greatly. It also features some very handy screens!
The most interesting thing is, as I'd read somewhere, later on in the game (both) you travel to the future.
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Sept 30, 2009 15:00:51 GMT -5
XZR in a lot of ways really is like Tower of Druaga - some of the progression points are so obtuse, even for a native speaker I'd think it was frustrating!
Anyway, hit another snag, despite being SO close to finishing it, and seeing the level where you need to kill the president (I'm nervous about the write-ups' feedback - the first game is rather controversial in places!).
I'm in Alexandria and need an "aranbike", but no stores sell it and from what the main guide says, he doesn't know how he got it. Am I correct in reading it that he says he thinks he bought it previously or found it in a cave? Because I've searched both of Alexandria's caves and not found anything of value.
Googling keywords in Japanese yielded the following forum post from somewhere, which machine translated makes think it has the answer in it somewhere... Any Japanese speakers able to shed any light on it?
XZRやってたらアレクサンドリアで詰まっちまった……
ケロタキスとエリキサとアランビーケが必要らしいが、
ケロタキス用のイオウと水銀、エリキサは見つかったが、
アランビーケが見つからん……
攻略サイトも見たが、アランビーケの入手法だけ有耶無耶になってて駄目だった……
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Post by kobushi on Sept 30, 2009 17:58:21 GMT -5
I'm afraid not... the poster is simply asking the same question you are, and appears to be referencing the same walkthrough (which seems to be the only detailed source of XZR information on the Internet at the moment)  How long is the game? I know of XZR, but I've never played it. Maybe I'll give it a try... |
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Oct 1, 2009 4:22:36 GMT -5
If you know what you're doing, a few hours maybe? More if you're struggling with the language and the obtuse puzzles like me. Based on the guide and how far I've managed to come, I'd say you could complete it around 4-6 hours? I've clocked maybe maybe 10+ on the PC88 version. Thanks for the offer of playing it! We could maybe incorporate a mini-walkthrough into the HG101 guide. If you do play it, have a go at the PC88 version, since I'd love some screens of the final bosses. But please, don't go to any trouble.  I'm probably being a bit too harsh with this early drafted paragraph, since I actually quite like the game, despite its puzzling nature, but I mention some of the tricky bits: |
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Post by kimimi on Oct 1, 2009 5:01:04 GMT -5
I think it's a difficult thing to talk about - the language barrier will obviously be there for most readers and will create that extra frustration, but at the same time it isn't the fault of a Japan-only game for a Japan-only system that you (figurative "you") can't read the language it was written in.
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Post by kobushi on Oct 1, 2009 5:34:55 GMT -5
Well, I've been playing the PC88 version a little today... I've just rescued Fakhyle (ファキール) and am about to head into the mountains to look for the remaining members of the royal family. No sign of the アランビーケ yet. (By the way, I'm pretty sure this is "alambique", the Spanish word for Al-inbiq, the Arabic word for alembic. Maybe that'll help give an idea of where it is.) Some random comments so far: - Combat is clunky, and the boss fights end up being very easy or very hard. I had a terrible time with the female bandit leader - her jumping slash hits a good 5-6 times in a row with no way to block. Am I missing something? The best strategy I've found is to find high ground and do a downward thrust, a la Zelda II. Several of the early bosses went down in two hits with this move. - I don't think I've ever seen a more unlikeable set of party members in a game. "Want to go help save the royal family?" you ask, but no, Lurmy has her job at the inn, Fakhyle just wants to sit around on his ass begging coins for a bit of food, Kindhy can't get out of the circus, and Sufrawaldhi is &|%#@ dead! It's like XZR is supposed to be a party-based rpg, but all the party members are losers, so the hero has to do everything himself. - The sheer number of drugs available for use is surprising, but they don't actually seem to do that much. For instance, hashish is supposed to temporarily raise attack and defense, but I didn't notice much of an effect. They're definitely not integral to the game. - Similarly, there's lots of stores that just sell crap. In the first pawn shop, for example, you can buy a ceramic sword, except it appears in the Item list rather than the Weapon list, and breaks as soon as you use it. It seems to serve no purpose other than robbing you of your money. Some things are definitely obscure (like Fakhyle's shack being hidden behind a solid rock wall), but overall I don't think the game is that cruel. I know it can be difficult if you don't read Japanese, but there are hints, like... - If you don't find the back entrance to the prison on your own, the barkeep in town will tell you about it. - One of the townspeople says "Good things happen if you pay your respects at the cemetery." And since Sufrawaldhi's grave is the only grave with any text, it make sense to search around it. - About the medusa thing: the shop is named "Job Center" (職安), and the menu item says "Exterminate medusa" (メデューサの退治), so I think that's just a language thing, and not the game itself. I thought it was pretty clear that the money values were bounties/rewards, rather than prices. Anyway, I won't get to play much on Friday, but I'll be able to play some more this weekend and get through it. If I find the alembic, I'll let you know. |
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Oct 2, 2009 4:01:20 GMT -5
I think it's a difficult thing to talk about - the language barrier will obviously be there for most readers and will create that extra frustration, but at the same time it isn't the fault of a Japan-only game for a Japan-only system that you (figurative "you") can't read the language it was written in. You're absolutely correct. As I said that initial paragraph was being a little harsh, and I am enjoying the game despite my only basic grasp of the Japanese language. I'm working mainly with the PC88 version, but I think I'd find the MSX version easier since it's only kana scripts and no kanji, which would make understanding sentences, verbs and grammar much easier. Anyway, HG101 articles tend to aimed at native English speakers mainly (?), so mentioning that the game is difficult is warranted. Playing on a PSP might actually be making visual clues more difficult to find, but after the Fahkiel hut trouble, I started rubbing up against the mountain walls in Alexandria to find the sideways paths. One of the big things about this game's difficulty, is that it very much harks back to older, especially computer based, styles of obfuscated design. Which on one hand, I kinda like. Thank you for the help and commentary Kobushi, it's much appreciated - you're welcome to share the byline if you like. Don't worry if you can't find the alembic, we should have enough material from this far. For the bandit queen I jumped on her head and then jumped on the platform above the door. Later bosses go down pretty quickly with magic, especially the serpent magic you get. Drugs, besides the healing items and the magic mushroom for magic, are indeed useless. So are the items. I bought the recorder and Jew's harp thinking they served a purpose but they didn't. As for the characters, they're pretty redundant throughout the entire series - technically you can control them in Exile: WP, but they none are as useful as Sadler. Your Japanese skill is obviously well beyond mine, but what are your views regarding the handling of the religions? I read things from various NPCs hailing their religion or God, and a lot of historical figures are mentioned/encountered, and the feeling is that it's a mashup of religious cliches in a rather controversial fashion. I'm not really sensitive to religious issues, but this seems like the kind of game which might rile all of the big three if it existed in English. The whole Islamic assassin killing the American president storyline alone would get people worked up. For a bit of scope, I was thinking of including a paragraph highlighting the world's religious/political history the year each title was released (using Wikipedia's yearly entries), to put the content into context. I know ZZZ said that games shouldn't have any connection to real-world events in the Night Trap thread, but this seems possibly warranted. Finally, regarding screenshots, one as yet anonymous forum user has donated 500 screens for Exile and Exile:WP on the Turbo Duo. So, we're all set. |
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Post by Sketcz-1000 on Oct 2, 2009 17:02:02 GMT -5
kobushi: Also, just to say, if you're playing through it, feel free to grab a couple of random screens. I've got about 100 so far, but they've all been resized for my PSP's screen. They look good, but they lose the lovely rich texture that's inherent with PC88 games. If it sounds like a hassle though, don't worry about it. I feel guilty requesting so much help as it is.
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Post by kimimi on Oct 2, 2009 17:56:30 GMT -5
I think it's a difficult thing to talk about - the language barrier will obviously be there for most readers and will create that extra frustration, but at the same time it isn't the fault of a Japan-only game for a Japan-only system that you (figurative "you") can't read the language it was written in. You're absolutely correct. As I said that initial paragraph was being a little harsh, and I am enjoying the game despite my only basic grasp of the Japanese language. I'm working mainly with the PC88 version, but I think I'd find the MSX version easier since it's only kana scripts and no kanji, which would make understanding sentences, verbs and grammar much easier. Anyway, HG101 articles tend to aimed at native English speakers mainly (?), so mentioning that the game is difficult is warranted. Playing on a PSP might actually be making visual clues more difficult to find, but after the Fahkiel hut trouble, I started rubbing up against the mountain walls in Alexandria to find the sideways paths. One of the big things about this game's difficulty, is that it very much harks back to older, especially computer based, styles of obfuscated design. Which on one hand, I kinda like. I just have some very clear memories of great games (for example, Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI) getting import reviews in magazines and being marked down to sub-Horsez level almost entirely because the reviewer couldn't read the words on the screen. So it wasn't really a reaction to you, more that it brought up thoughts of previous injustices |
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Post by kobushi on Oct 2, 2009 20:03:18 GMT -5
Just to complement what kimimi posted, I think it's perfectly appropriate to discuss how the game is difficult, as long as there is a distinction made between difficulty due to inherent design, and difficulty due to language requirements. No no, I don't deserve that. I'm just happy to help out. I can't really comment on the religious stuff yet, since I'm still not that far into the game. It doesn't seem that controversial, but like you I'm not that sensitive. There's a general disdain for organized religion, but that's true of almost every Japanese rpg. I think the developers were just taking advantage of the mystique surrounding historical assassins - a radical Shia Muslim group who opposed the Caliphate and were rumored to systematically take drugs. One thing that seemed more humorous than controversial was at the very beginning, in the first town. If you go to the mosque, the Imam tells you to stay away from the charlatan preaching heresy in the temple at the edge of town, or else suffer the wrath of Allah. However, if you go to the temple, the priestess simply says that you should follow your own beliefs and worship your own god. So it seems like the game is critiquing the monolithic nature of Islam - but at the same time, the temple is labeled the "Temple of Heresy", while the mosque is simply the "Mosque". |
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