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Post by Discoalucard on May 5, 2013 17:39:28 GMT -5
www.hardcoregaming101.net/sapphire/sapphire.htmSapphire is stuck in that awkward position that comes with a game being extremely expensive. The game doesn't quite live up to the reputation its price tag might suggest, as it's a fairly standard shooter, but it's got some nice graphics and a killer soundtrack. I have yet to try the PSP re-release.
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Post by cplethan on May 6, 2013 7:39:19 GMT -5
Good article, I would have mentioned that Sapphire was one of the first shooters of the era that really pushed the envelope on visual appeal along with busy gameplay (as opposed to Tatsujin, for example.) It also shares more than a few similarities to Radiant Silvergun, and can be considered a spiritual predecessor of sorts. Personally I think it's the finest shooter on the system, far better than anything in the Soldier series.
Whenever the game came out, for western fans of the PC Engine/Turbografx-16 it immediately took on legendary status as if you were even able to find a copy for sale it was prohibitively expensive even then (stores like DieHard Game Fan knew what they had their hands on and priced accordingly.) Folks who did own it were all to happy to not only brag about it but to embellish the notion that some godly programmer did the impossible and that the 3D/lighting/morphing effects in this game were rendered in real time. The fact is it's amazing how much graphical information you can jam into the 2MB Arcade card that this thing required and the producers of this game exploited exactly that.
It's too bad this game never saw release in America, but the time it was released in Japan, the Duo had dead for a year in America. That's a shame, as it's a nice proof that the "bits" part for the main CPU under the hood was meaningless and the Turbo was just as capable of a machine, if not more, than the Sega Genesis.
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Post by nickz on May 6, 2013 20:29:46 GMT -5
I'm glad you enjoyed the article! I never really saw any connections to Radiant Silvergun before, but now that you mention it, they do have a little in common. They're both full of bosses and have a kind of "straight, wide, homing" weapon system.
I'm a little disappointed the neither of the versions made it outside of Japan too. I was hoping for the PSP version for a while, but maybe the voice acting coupled with the fact that it's on a compilation with two adventure games might have made it too difficult to localize. I can kind of see why that version was never released anywhere else.
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Startling
Banned
A better gamer than all of you plebs
Posts: 54
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Post by Startling on Apr 1, 2016 17:30:27 GMT -5
You people worry me, you really do. Sapphire doesn't resemble Raiden at all, never mind Raiden is already a ripoff of Kyukyoku Tiger and Tatsujin. The game is far more like Mahou Daisakusen. Hagane and Bulk Slash are not even vaguely relevant. The beginnings of CAProduction are in the Gate of Thunder and Winds of Thunder team, which is why Sapphire feels very similar to those games, while still being a different kind of game. Like the Thunders, Sapphire isn't anywhere near average. It is above and beyond the vast majority of console shmups, as well as a large number of big arcade titles. Good article, I would have mentioned that Sapphire was one of the first shooters of the era that really pushed the envelope on visual appeal along with busy gameplay (as opposed to Tatsujin, for example.) It also shares more than a few similarities to Radiant Silvergun, and can be considered a spiritual predecessor of sorts. Personally I think it's the finest shooter on the system, far better than anything in the Soldier series. What are you even talking about? Tatsujin is seven years older than Sapphire. They just took forever to do a proper arcade port; the same thing happened to Gradius II. Have a look at Tatsujin Ou instead. Sapphire absolutely does not resemble Radiant Silvergun in any way, shape, or form. It's too bad this game never saw release in America, but the time it was released in Japan, the Duo had dead for a year in America. That's a shame, as it's a nice proof that the "bits" part for the main CPU under the hood was meaningless and the Turbo was just as capable of a machine, if not more, than the Sega Genesis. Yes, I suppose constantly adding upgrade after upgrade can allow one system to finally match another. Ridiculous. The base PC Engine already matches the Mega Drive by virtue of being a very well-built piece of hardware; the Super CD was powerful enough to necessitate a Mega-CD. Unfortunately, Sega simply did not put in the effort they needed to, but only SoA can be blamed for that one.
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Post by Weasel on Apr 2, 2016 11:17:52 GMT -5
Startling, I'd suppose a lot of your complaints are down to personal taste. I don't think being this dismissive is really helping your arguments.
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Startling
Banned
A better gamer than all of you plebs
Posts: 54
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Post by Startling on Apr 2, 2016 12:13:42 GMT -5
Sorry, but a lot of those are supposed to be fact-based judgements from these people. When you're bringing up an unrelated platformer and ignoring actually related shmups when talking about a shmup, you're doing something wrong. When you're comparing a game to totally different games and completely ignoring the existence of a game that the first game might as well have stolen its gameplay from (this isn't even taking into consideration how close Hudson's friends were to Compile in those days; to do so makes Sapphire copying from Musha even more fitting), you're doing something wrong. When you're trying to talk about "eras" of game development, completely ignoring the context of a given game as well as the context of a given console, you really are doing something wrong, I'm sorry.
I'm dismissive because it's incorrect misinformation; I see it everywhere, even among people who are supposed to be fans of these games and consoles, and quite frankly I'm sick of it. Someone's got to stand up against it at some point, and I can assure you that being "nice" isn't going to help get the point across any easier; trust me, I've tried countless times in countless places about countless points. At some point, you have to stop "protecting" people by calling everything some special snowflake opinion, and realize that most of what these people say is just plain lying.
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Post by Weasel on Apr 2, 2016 12:18:49 GMT -5
and I can assure you that being "nice" isn't going to help get the point across any easier; trust me, I've tried countless times in countless places about countless points. Well, I'm sorry, but I'd imagine you having this attitude is going to prompt people to listen to you less. Maybe you're right and maybe the article does have information that is demonstrably wrong, but stopping just short of calling the writer an idiot is only going to discourage them from actually doing anything about it, if you ask me.
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Startling
Banned
A better gamer than all of you plebs
Posts: 54
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Post by Startling on Apr 2, 2016 12:21:30 GMT -5
Yes, you'd imagine that because that's what you've always been told. Trust me, I have tried. It doesn't work.
Please note that half of my post doesn't even talk about the article, but about someone commenting on the article.
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Post by Weasel on Apr 2, 2016 12:23:07 GMT -5
Yes, you'd imagine that because that's what you've always been told. Trust me, I have tried. It doesn't work.Well, this doesn't work either, so as a moderator, I'd like to ask you to stop.
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Post by Discoalucard on Apr 2, 2016 21:25:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure responding to some other poster from a thread from three years ago is going to be very productive. I doubt you're even going to get a reply so you're basically arguing with thin air.
I've been meaning to revisit Sapphire since I want to feature it in an upcoming book, so this one will probably be rewritten to some extent.
To address some of the things you've pointed to the article - yes, you could point to be the weapons system closer to Madou Daisakusen...the thing is, Raiden is a much more well known game, and it's not like that bit of information is wrong, it's just making a casual connection that its weapons are based on different colored items. That's it. You could fill in the blank with any number of shooters (Super Star Soldier, Spriggan, etc.) and it would say the same thing.
I disagree that Hagane and Bulk Slash are irrelevant to the article. One of the main points of this site is to draw connections that might not be immediate obvious, and one of the main ones is through staff. The "Thunder" games are closer since it probably consists of some of the same actual people, but it also highlights that "this small team within Hudson made some other cool, cult classic titles". I'm in the middle of revising it though, and the Thunder games are listed.
You also have to remember, this article was written five years ago. The information on the Japanese internet has been catching up a lot in the past five years, especially on Wikipedia, so it's easier to make these connections, even if the English language part is still catching up to it.
As for the opinion of the game, I dunno. Sapphire is certainly pretty good, but it's also a victim of its own reputation considering how expensive it is. It's a solid game but better than "the vast majority of console shmups"? I mean everything is subjective, but I'm going to have to disagree with that. Just within its immediate vicinity I prefer MUSHA, Spriggan, or Nexzr, and that's not even counting any horizontal shooters.
Part of the stuff I'm redoing in general is tracing the relationships between Hudson, Compile, and Naxat, since they were the producers of many of these kinds of shooters. Certainly they share a core influence, though I'd hesitate to call them "friends" considering other Compile's PC Engine games were published by Naxat, which was directly competing with Hudson in the shooter competition circuit.
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